D&D (2024) The future of edition changes and revisions

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, that's it right there. I don't care for this new pressure at all, and it's making me inclined to dig in my heels.

Then I'd suggest getting used to being a participant in a war you probably don't really want to be in.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then I'd suggest getting used to being a participant in a war you probably don't really want to be in.

What does that mean?

 

[Thomas Shey]

What does that mean?

There is a very nasty struggle that goes on in some circles between some traditionalists (some of whom are just traditionalists, but some of which are either subconscious or nothing-sub-about-it conscious racists, misogynists, homophobes and more) and people who think some elements of older games are, frankly, repugnant and were only not recognized at the time for what they were for various reasons. The latter are not going to stop confronting people about it, and the former are going to fight rearguard actions to the bitter end for various reasons of various reasons. Consider whether you really want to join the former group in that fight, given some of their motives and purposes.

Don't let me misrepresent myself here; in some respects I'm kind of traditionalist myself, but if I find myself on the same side of a fight with racists, I need a lot better a reason than "Its what I'm used to and comfortable with" before I want to be there.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is a very nasty struggle that goes on in some circles between some traditionalists (some of whom are just traditionalists, but some of which are either subconscious or nothing-sub-about-it conscious racists, misogynists, homophobes and more) and people who think some elements of older games are, frankly, repugnant and were only not recognized at the time for what they were for various reasons. The latter are not going to stop confronting people about it, and the former are going to fight rearguard actions to the bitter end for various reasons of various reasons. Consider whether you really want to join the former group in that fight, given some of their motives and purposes.

Don't let me misrepresent myself here; in some respects I'm kind of traditionalist myself, but if I find myself on the same side of a fight with racists, I need a lot better a reason than "Its what I'm used to and comfortable with" before I want to be there.

I'm going to make up my own mind about what changes I like and what I don't, and not simply roll over because the internet says I should, thank you. I strongly resent the implication here that if you disagree with even parts of the cultural shift of the last few years, then you're on the same side as racists and need to re-think your opinion.

I think you should be able to use older material without being labeled for it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm going to make up my own mind about what changes I like and what I don't, and not simply roll over because the internet says I should, thank you. I strongly resent the implication here that if you disagree with even parts of the cultural shift of the last few years, then you're on the same side as racists and need to re-think your opinion.

I think you should be able to use older material without being labeled for it.

There's a big difference between "I'm going to keep using the material I have that I don't see as negative" and "I'm going to push back on the change." Some people will argue with you about the former, but I'm talking about the latter. That's a case of deciding if that's really the hill you want to die on.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's a big difference between "I'm going to keep using the material I have that I don't see as negative" and "I'm going to push back on the change." Some people will argue with you about the former, but I'm talking about the latter. That's a case of deciding if that's really the hill you want to die on.

Well, I'm talking about the former. That's where I stand.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, I'm talking about the former. That's where I stand.

It has the virtue it at least doesn't put you shoulder to shoulder with people you probably don't want to be.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Makes sense Goblinoids were Fey related in actual myth. And most Goblinoids are Fey descended not actual fey. What with the whole conquest by their god thing.

I'd say it depends on the world you are playing in.

Am I playing on Earth where Norse and Celtic Mythology are a thing? Or am I playing in Faerun or Krynn or something where some evil god created the goblins?

But yes. WotC can change whatever they want. And Evil Gods didnt create any form of warlike race and everything comes from the realm of the faeries instead and got corrupted. Good lord, look how the "fixed" Lolth.....

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[Staffan]

5E was an apology edition, and part of that "apology" was taking the lore back to some old-skool places without really thinking through The Implications. I haven't read the 2E Orc description in the MM but I'm guessing it's less full of racist dogwhistles than 5E's one is, not more. Not intentionally, sure, but it shows an issue.

I remember reacting pretty strongly to the passage about alignment in the 5e PHB. Specifically: "The evil deities who created other races, though, made those races to serve them. Those races have strong inborn tendencies that match the nature of their gods. Most orcs share the violent, savage nature of the orc god, Gruumsh. and are thus inelined toward evil. Even if an orc chooses a good alignment, it struggles against its innate tendencies for its entire life. (Even half-orcs feel the lingering pull of the orc god's influence.)"

Fortunately, this bit has been memory holed in more recent printings as well as on D&D Beyond.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I'd say it depends on the world you are playing in.

Am I playing on Earth where Norse and Celtic Mythology are a thing? Or am I playing in Faerun or Krynnor something where some evil god created the goblins?

But yes. WotC can change whatever they want. And Evil Gods didnt create any form of warlike race and everything comes from the realm of the faeries instead and got corrupted. Good lord, look how the "fixed" Lolth.....

In for a penny, in for a pound.

What do you mean Lolth is the same as always from what I know.

Goblin's are largely the same they just have different origins now. It helps differ them from Orcs more now who were created by a god. The Goblins instead were conquered by a god.