The gaming/fiction disparity, or "Why are dark elves cliche?"

[Planesdragon]

You're missing the fact that in DL, dark elves are absolutely nothing like the standard D&D dark elves.

d'oh!

I didn't mean to say "dark elf.' I meant to say "drow."

Take a look at (IIRC) the "Queen of Darkness" novel from the Villians series. It's got black skinned elves who don't like the gods and have unique magic.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Damn, I wish I could play in one of your campaigns.

I can't count how many times I've had to argue with players because they were pissed that a katana wasn't a d12 18-20/x3 weapon that could be used with weapon finesse.

That's exactly why. Those three thiings have always attracted argumentative players. And I've had players that were absolute pains in the butt when they played a monk/drow/katana-wielder that were totally cool when they played something else. I've had the same experience with ninjas and samurai, too.

 

[JDJarvis]

Dark Elves aren't an invention of D&D but Drow as they exsist in D&D and any Dark elves that look like them and dress like then and live where they do are most certainly derivative and are then a cliche. oh look black skinned elves that means with a reasonable degree of reliability one can say :

they split from the other elves in the distant path during a great struggle.
they live underground
they dress like necromantic leather fetishists
they are a matriarchical culture
the culture has common contact with forces of the underworld
the culture is dominated by worship to a specific diety
the culure is likely to have something to do with spiders
they don't get out in the sun much
they plot against thier ancient cousins, the goodie goodie elves
they are naughty scheme ridden creeps
no one had these folks floating about in stories until they were in D&D

It is just like Hobbits: How many stories can you tell about small mellow folk from simple agricultural socities sheleterd from the big bad world that go largely unnoticed until one of them gets into things way over his head before saving everyone everywhere before it become cliche?

 

[Morrow]

if it is evil it has to have a different color skin.

the races of colo(u)r get no respect.

Bingo. "The most evil, feared, despicable people in my largely white campaign world (or fantasy novel) are black women." It was a bad idea when Gygax had it, and it's a bad idea now.

Morrow

 

[reanjr]

... with the exception of my lingere theory.

Oh, yeah, sorry...

 

[Orius]

It's because dark elf chicks look hot in lingere.

I don't think that was the fantasy fiction RangerWickett was talking about.

 

[jmucchiello]

In D&D games, most players think that dark elves are cool.

I've never gamed with such a player. I don't know any personally. My question would be "what is so cool about dark elves?" But then, I don't play with gamers who want to be ninjas either.

 

[Zelgadas]

Steps are actually being taken to remedy this somewhat. Take a look at drow in Eberron; they're actually pretty different from drow in Forgotten Realms. They don't live underground (at least, I don't think so), they aren't irredeemably evil (insular and distrustful of outsiders, yes; evil, no), and they actually have the most advanced civilization on the entire continent of Xen'drik. They also aren't referred to as 'dark elves'; they are drow, a somewhat related but basically separate species from elves. Oh, and there's also no Llolth/spider fetish.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

The standard split between Light & Dark Elves has always been around, though it has been used differently.

D&D is the most classic example: the pale standard elves akin to Light Elves; and the jet-black, underground dwelling drow akin to Dark Elves. This seems to be very common and very popular: both sorts of elves pop up in Everquest (actually, it seems to be more of a mix of Warhammer factions & D&D appearances).

Warhammer & Dragonlance use the Light/Dark theme, but use it solely for a good/evil reference, and not for a combination of attitude and appearance.

Or, the basic split sort of remains, but is played around with. The best example that comes to mind is Warcraft elves: the thin, pale, pointy-eared human-like Elves; and the bluish-purplish-skinned Night Elves.

I don't mind the use of dark elves, but I do mind when they're treated as something much more powerful (&/or evil) than regular elves. It's one of the reasons why I don't use subraces IMC: sure you can have a elf with a drow-like appearance, but that elf is statistically the same as the elf in the race presented in the PHB (same thing for duergar-looking dwarves, too).

 

[Dark Jezter]

Dark elves aren't just cliche in fiction, they're also cliche in D&D. Drow have become so overused that they're pretty much considered "the standard underdark villains" and are very commonly used in place of other underdark races such as duergar, kuo-toa, mind flayers, etc.

I've noticed that when gamers (both DMs and PCs) design drow characters, they usually fall into three archaetypes...

• Stylishly Evil: The standard evil drow who is evil for the sake of being evil, but is as polite and accomodating as a James Bond villain when they can get use out of someone. Otherwise, they act like a complete sociopath.
• The Sex Kitten: A lot of guy gamers have the hots for drow chicks, for some reason. They consider them to be the epitome of sensuality. Thus, I've seen many players and DMs create female drow characters who wore revealing, domanatrix-like outfits, were described as being incredibly gorgeous, and tried to seduce everyone in sight.
• The Brooding, Angsty Good-Aligned Drow: This one has been explained earlier in the thread.

In my Forgotten Realms campaign, the number of drow NPCs the PCs have encountered can be counted on a single hand. I've gotten so burned out on drow over the years that I'm reluctant to even use that race at all.