The Grimmen

[Farland]

Please give me comments on the latest World of Farland creation. Is it balanced, etc?

Grimmen Level 6 Lurker
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 250
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +3; darkvision
HP 58; Bloodied 29
AC 19; Fortitude 17, Reflex 16, Will 18
Speed 6; climb 4 (spider climb)
m Longsword (standard; at-will)
+10 vs. AC; 1d8+4
r Short bow(standard; at-will)
+11 vs. AC; 1d6+4
Grimmen's Fear (minor; recharge 6) ✦ Fear
+8 vs. Will; the grimmen's form seems to temporarily change into something terrifying. The target is pushed two squares and is immobilized (save ends).
Rise for Blood
If the grimmen is reduced to 0 hit points, it rises on its next turn (as a move action) as an Undead Grimmen. It has 29 hit points, and its keyword changes to undead. It gains immunity to disease and poison and resist 5 necrotic.
Alignment Chaotic evil Languages Common
Skills Bluff +11
Str 8 (+1) Dex 15 (+4) Wis 12 (+3)
Con 10 (+2) Int 12 (+3) Cha 18 (+6)

 

[Farland]

Any thoughts?

 

[Mesh Hong]

Please give me comments on the latest World of Farland creation. Is it balanced, etc?

Grimmen Level 6 Lurker
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 250
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +3; darkvision
HP 58; Bloodied 29
AC 19; Fortitude 17, Reflex 16, Will 18
Speed 6; climb 4 (spider climb)

Alignment Chaotic evil Languages Common
Skills Bluff +11
Str 8 (+1) Dex 15 (+4) Wis 12 (+3)
Con 10 (+2) Int 12 (+3) Cha 18 (+6)

These arn't the HPs/Defences I would expect, though that doesn't make them wrong as I base mine from the creatures stats

HP: 52
AC: 20; Fortitude: 15; Reflex 18; Will 19

m Longsword (standard; at-will)
+10 vs. AC; 1d8+4

I would have expected this to be +11 vs. AC and 1d8+2 damage (again for weapon damage I use either strength or dex bonus)

The average expression for a level 6 lurker is 1d10+4 damage, I see you have no power that gives it bonus damage with combat advantage so I would tempted to increase the creatures base damage or add an effect.

Longsword Strike (standard, at will) - weapon
attack +11 vs. AC; 2d6+2 damage (crit 19/20 for 1d8+14 damage)

r Short bow(standard; at-will)
+11 vs. AC; 1d6+4

Again I would probably up the damage here, to 1d8+2 or maybe 1d10+2 and as it is a lurker add an suitable effect

Shortbow Shot (standard, at will) - weapon
Range 15/30; attack +11 vs. AC; 1d10+2 damage; in Grimmen misses with this attack while hiding it remains hidden

Grimmen's Fear (minor; recharge 6) ✦ Fear
+8 vs. Will; the grimmen's form seems to temporarily change into something terrifying. The target is pushed two squares and is immobilized (save ends).

I probably wouldn't bother making this power a 6 recharge and change it to an encounter power for easier book keeping. You also havn't informed the reader what type of power it is and its range.

Grimmen Fear (minor; encounter) - fear
Close blast 3; attack +8 vs. Will; on hit target is pushed 2 squares and immobilised (save ends)

Rise for Blood
If the grimmen is reduced to 0 hit points, it rises on its next turn (as a move action) as an Undead Grimmen. It has 29 hit points, and its keyword changes to undead. It gains immunity to disease and poison and resist 5 necrotic.

This is a nice power and a nasty surprise for the players. But I think you might need to adjust the overall HPs of the creature to balance it out. Look at the Zombie Hulk in the MM for an example of this power where the creature starts with less HPs than expected.

In this case I would consider using:

HPs: 40; bloodied 20
Rise for Blood: 20

It doesn't seem a lot, but that is because this sort of power is much better on a brute that has a bigger HP base.

Anyway I hope these thoughts help.

 

[Farland]

Yes, they do indeed help. I had similar thoughts about lacking a lurker attack power. I was thinking maybe having the creature immobilized by fear grant combat advantage to the grimmen, and the grimmen do an additional d6 when it has combat advantage.

YOur comments about the HP help as well. Thanks.

 

[Dire Human]

Here's my take.

Grimmen Cutthroat, Level 6 Lurker
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 250
Initiative +10 Senses Perception +8
HP 60; Bloodied 30; see also rise for blood
AC 20; Fortitude 16, Reflex 19, Will 18
Speed 6; Climb 4 (spider climb); see also grim shadows

Jagged Shortsword (standard; at-will)
+11 vs AC; 2d6+2 damage; see also go for the throat

Shortbow (standard; at-will)
+11 vs AC; 1d8+2 damage; see also go for the throat

Grim Shadows (move; encounter)
The grimmen cutthroat moves its speed and gains concealment until the end of its next turn.

Go For the Throat
The grimmen cutthroat deals an extra 1d6 damage against any target it has combat advantage against.

Rise for Blood (the first time the grimmen cutthroat drops to 0 hit points)
The grimmen cutthroat does not die and instead remains at 0 hit points (save ends). The grimmen cutthroat takes a -5 penalty to saving throws against this effect. If the grimmen cutthroat does not save against this effect by the end of the encounter, it dies.
Aftereffect: Make a new initiative check for the grimmen cutthroat. The grimmen cutthroat rises (as a move action) with 30 hit points, and its keyword changes to undead. It gains immunity to disease and poison, resist 5 necrotic, and vulnerable 5 radiant.

Alignment: Evil Languages: Common
Skills: Acrobatics +11, Bluff +11, Endurance +9, Stealth +11, Thievery +11
Str 13 (+1) Dex 17 (+3) Wis 15 (+2)
Con 12 (+1) Int 10 (+0) Cha 17 (+3)


Grimmen Beguiler, Level 6 Controller
Medium immortal humanoid (devil) XP 250
Initiative +4 Senses Perception +6
HP 70; Bloodied 45; see also rise for blood
AC 19; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 19
Speed 6; Climb 4 (spider climb)

Shortsword (standard; at-will)
+11 vs AC; 1d6+4 damage

Hobbling Shortbow (standard; at-will)
+11 vs AC; 1d8+3 damage, and the target is slowed until the end of the grimmen beguiler’s next turn

Foster Discontent (standard; recharge )
+8 vs Will; the target chooses between 10 psychic damage or making a basic attack against its nearest ally as a free action.

Grimmen's Fear (minor; recharge ) [FONT=&quot]✦[/FONT] Fear
Close burst 5; +8 vs. Will; the grimmen beguiler's form seems to temporarily change into something terrifying. The target is pushed two squares and is immobilized (save ends).

Rise for Blood (the first time the grimmen beguiler drops to 0 hit points)
The grimmen beguiler does not die and instead remains at 0 hit points (save ends). The grimmen beguiler takes a -5 penalty to saving throws against this effect. If the grimmen beguiler does not save against this effect by the end of the encounter, it dies.
Aftereffect: Make a new initiative check for the grimmen beguiler. The grimmen beguiler rises (as a move action) with 45 hit points, and its keyword changes to undead. It gains immunity to disease and poison, resist 5 necrotic, and vulnerable 5 radiant.

Alignment: Evil Languages: Common
Skills: Bluff +12, Endurance +9, Insight +11, Intimidate +12, Stealth +9
Str 11 (+0) Dex 13 (+0) Wis 16 (+3)
Con 13 (+1) Int 15 (+2) Cha 19 (+4)

 

[Mesh Hong]

Again I think there is a balance problem with effectively giving a creature 133% HPs for teh same xp.

The rough HPs I would expect for a level 6 lurker is 60. Yours has the standard 60, then an additional 30 when it comes back from the dead.

This really needs balancing somehow, I suppose if you arn't willing to adjust the HPs you could look at the creatures damage output or its defences next?

I wouldn't want to drop the damage output because it seems about right, you could drop the AC by 2.....

....actually you could drop the damage and the AC when it comes back from the dead. But that might get a bit too complicated for a standard creature.

No I am still pretty much of the oppinion that the creature should have about 40 HPs then come back with 20 which gives you the total of 60 HPs which is what you expect for a level 6 lurker.

Rise for Blood (the first time the grimmen cutthroat drops to 0 hit points)
The grimmen cutthroat does not die and instead remains at 0 hit points
(save ends). The grimmen cutthroat takes a -5 penalty to saving throws
against this effect. If the grimmen cutthroat does not save against this
effect by the end of the encounter, it dies.
Aftereffect: Make a new initiative check for the grimmen cutthroat. The
grimmen cutthroat rises (as a move action) with 30 hit points, and its
keyword changes to undead. It gains immunity to disease and poison,
resist 5 necrotic, and vulnerable 5 radiant.

I like the feel of this mechanic and adds a bit of uncertainty about when and if they are comming back. It might be a little fiddly during play though as its another roll to remember. But it would probably be OK.

Foster Discontent (standard; recharge 5 6)
+8 vs Will; the target chooses between 10 psychic damage or making a basic attack against its nearest ally as a free action.

Thats quite a nice mechanic as well, how about making it a saving throw, if you pass you take 10 damage and can take your turn as normal, if you fail you attack teh closest ally? Again, its adding another dice roll but it could be amusing.

 

[Sporemine]

Looks good Mesh hong.

One thing is, looking at the damage of at a 6th level character, it usually ends up at around 20 damage for a BASIC attack (assuming a hit, this damage can vary heavily depending on the character build)
At between a 50% and 75% of hitting it with whatever attack, a party of 4 Vs 4 of these would go as follows.

(This assumes a modeately co-ordinated party with basic damage)

Round one :

3 hits, one down, one at 50% health

1 makes a save at a 25% chance of reviving

Round two :

2 hits, another down, one at 50 % health

2 make saves, theres a 25% chance of reviving for each

Round three :

3 hits, all monsters are down, encounter ends, all monsters die.

This is very rough but I think it illustrates my point.

They die quickly and the chance of saving is generally too low to help them.

I think that I see what you want (a power that adds some unpredictability when they revive to throw the party off balance)

But to make it work, I think that you need to either give it a normal saving throw, (50% chance) or give it average health then add more when it revives.

Another possibility is to make it an elite which has 116 hp on average. that could be split easily. Also, being an elite allows the monster to have more powerful abilities and stats, which could be changed to make this work.

Kudos

-Sporemine

 

[Farland]

Thanks for the input, gentlemen. YOu've really helped me. I have sort of done a hybrid of both your ideas with some of mine thrown in. Dire Human and Mesh Hong, if you want to, please email me (contact info is on my website) with some combination of either your real name or initials, so that I can credit you for contributions to the Grimmen. I'll publish the grimmen on the 15th of this month.

 

[Sporemine]

Where will you publish it? I want a copy.

I would recommend running it through Asmor monster maker version 3.6 to get a nice looking stat block.

looks good

-Sporemine

 

[Farland]

I am going to publish it to my website, The World of Farland.

Specifically to here. I do the html statblocks by hand, but thanks for the link.

Oh, and sporemine-- thanks for your analysis. That was very helpful as well.