The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey reactions (SPOILERS)

[Olgar Shiverstone]

The council scenes make me wonder how the fate of Thrain as well as Gandalf's procurement of the key and map will be explained.

In the book, we know he encountered Thrain in the dungeons of the Necromancer and obtained the map and key there; when asked why he gives a "never ye mind" answer but from the other sources it's clear Gandalf knew then that the Necromancer was Sauron.

The movie version has him ignorant of that, which is fine for building mystery and in part makes a better story, but then: what happened to Thrain, and how did Gandalf get the map and key?

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I think it's a good thing Jackson's combining the characters of Azog and Bolg into just Azog. It would feel odd to have Azog in the flashback to the War of Dwarves and Orcs, play him up as a badass and the hated enemy of the dwarves, and then in the Battle of the Five Armies go, "Oh yeah, and this is his kid."

I had really, really been hoping to see some of the goblin war going into the film, so I'm glad they showed it. Although with three films to fill, I kinda guess they had to bring in every bit of background they could...

 

[MarkB]

The council scenes make me wonder how the fate of Thrain as well as Gandalf's procurement of the key and map will be explained.

In the book, we know he encountered Thrain in the dungeons of the Necromancer and obtained the map and key there; when asked why he gives a "never ye mind" answer but from the other sources it's clear Gandalf knew then that the Necromancer was Sauron.

The movie version has him ignorant of that, which is fine for building mystery and in part makes a better story, but then: what happened to Thrain, and how did Gandalf get the map and key?

I'm guessing they're going to rework the timeline a little and include Gandalf's venture into Dol Guldur and his encounter with Thrain in the second movie - most likely after he leaves the party at the eaves of Mirkwood - with the final defeat of the Necromancer integrated into the events of the third movie.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm guessing they're going to rework the timeline a little and include Gandalf's venture into Dol Guldur and his encounter with Thrain in the second movie - most likely after he leaves the party at the eaves of Mirkwood - with the final defeat of the Necromancer integrated into the events of the third movie.

I can see that, I guess, but I think it loses a bit of drama since the mystery of how he escaped Erebor is now no longer tied to handing over the key to the secret door.

I think it's a good thing Jackson's combining the characters of Azog and Bolg into just Azog. It would feel odd to have Azog in the flashback to the War of Dwarves and Orcs, play him up as a badass and the hated enemy of the dwarves, and then in the Battle of the Five Armies go, "Oh yeah, and this is his kid."

Agreed -- it will certainly make a better set up and foreshadowing for the BoFA (though I'm guessing they won't let Beorn kill Azog this time). I think they could have done a better reveal for Azog, though. Rather than having him track the dwarves from the start, if the Great Goblin had sent his message off to an "unknown friend", Azog arriving at the "Out of the Frying Pan" scene would have been quite a bit more dramatic.

 

[Umbran]

I think it's a good thing Jackson's combining the characters of Azog and Bolg into just Azog.

Hm. The LotR wiki says that Bolg will make an appearance, played by Conan Stevens.
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bolg

 

[MarkB]

I can see that, I guess, but I think it loses a bit of drama since the mystery of how he escaped Erebor is now no longer tied to handing over the key to the secret door.

Whilst that's true to some extent, I think that, if you're going to go ahead and do an expanded tale of what happened around Do Guldur, you want to work as much as possible of the meagre existing canon into the story. Relegating Gandalf's venture into the fortress to back-story would be a waste.

And i think the film has done a good job of broadening the scope of the narrative, so that it'll have more than enough drama within that thread of the narrative.

 

[Umbran]

I'm guessing they're going to rework the timeline a little and include Gandalf's venture into Dol Guldur and his encounter with Thrain in the second movie - most likely after he leaves the party at the eaves of Mirkwood - with the final defeat of the Necromancer integrated into the events of the third movie.

No, that won't work at all.

In the original, it is Gandalf who discovers and investigates the Necromancer, where he encounters Thrain - Gandalf knows what is up before the quest even begins (90 years before, even), and it is reasonable to think that maybe the quest is in part a convenient cover for Gandalf's movements.

In the movie, they've shifted the discovery of the Necromancer at Dol Guldur to Radagast. But Gandalf has met Thrain - so that meeting cannot have been at Dol Guldur. I expect they won't touch on where it was at all, honestly. Thrain simply entrusted the key to Gandalf, and that's it.

They are mucking with Tolkien's timeline considerably, mostly by compression. In the movie, Gandalf mentions that these days the forest is begin called Mirkwood, as if this is a recent thing the others wouldn't know about. In the books, it has been known by that name for a couple thousand years! While I know Saruman can be a bit distant at times, he isn't *that* out of touch.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

In the original, it is Gandalf who discovers and investigates the Necromancer,

A minor point - the Necromancer was widely known and feared before Gandalf investigated him and discovered his identity. Thorin ponders attacking him once the Lonely Mountain is reclaimed, and Gandalf warns him off.

So, Bolg's going to be in the films? Interesting. I wonder why Jackson kept Azog alive, then, if he's not going to lead in the Battle of the Five Armies? Or maybe Bolg will be a mini-boss. That would be reasonable. I guess then Beorn could still kill Bolg, as in the book.

 

[Umbran]

A minor point - the Necromancer was widely known and feared before Gandalf investigated him and discovered his identity. Thorin ponders attacking him once the Lonely Mountain is reclaimed, and Gandalf warns him off.

If you want to be complete, the history is thus:
Sauron is defeated, the One Ring is lost. This begins the Third Age. A millennium passes...

In TA 1050, Sauron moves into the Greenwood, and his influence darkens it, and people start calling it Mirkwood.
TA 2063 - Gandalf drives Sauron out of Dol Guldur.
TA 2460 - Sauron moves *back* into Dol Guldur - this is around when Smeagol finds the One Ring.
TA 2850 - Gandalf investigates the renewed presence in Mirkwood, finds Thrain in Dol Guldur
TA 2941 - Events of The Hobbit take place.

So, yes, if they were holding to the original timeline, they should be completely unsurprised. Mind you, I expect a 3000 year timeline on this is hard to get across to viewers of a 3-hour movie, so they compressed it.

So, Bolg's going to be in the films? Interesting. I wonder why Jackson kept Azog alive, then, if he's not going to lead in the Battle of the Five Armies?

As I noted upthread - he's there to provide a certain continuity across the films. He's the overarching plot thread.

 

[Morrus]

I think they played up Gandalf's suspicion that it is the Enemy overmuch - in the original that sits for 60 or so years after this adventure. It can't be that much in the forefront now.

Where do I have this jumbled memory in my head that Gandlaf found out it was Sauran before the Hobbit, and that's where he found Thorin's dad in captivity and got the map and key from him? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

[Edit - never mind; I see later posts go into that].