The hobby and 4e Forked Thread: So...How are Sales of 4E Product?

[xechnao]

Forked from: So...How are Sales of 4E Product?

IIRC some time ago somone from Steve Jackson Games stated that they always rooted for a successful D&D because it acted as a gateway to other RPGs.

Emphasis mine.

I simply do not believe this is true anymore. Why?
I come to believe that 4e D&D needs other rpgs to claim its success in the market (including D&D's previous editions) more than other rpgs need 4e.
Just imagine if 1974 saw a game identical to 4e instead of OD&D. Do you believe it would sell as much as 4e did in 2008? And more importantly -in the case the answer is no (which I strongly believe so)- do you believe it could grow or have the potential to grow as D&D historically did?

 

[Fifth Element]

I think your question is moot, because that's not the point of the post you're responding to. D&D has never been a gateway RPG because it informs the design of other RPGs (other than fantasy heartbreakers). It's the gateway RPG because people are far more likely to try it first rather than another RPG, and from it develop a taste for RPGs in general.

Your question also doesn't make sense, because the 4E ruleset relies on 30 years of gaming rule experimentation, development and innovation. I would suggest it could not have existed in its present form in 1974.

 

[xechnao]

I think your question is moot, because that's not the point of the post you're responding to. D&D has never been a gateway RPG because it informs the design of other RPGs (other than fantasy heartbreakers). It's the gateway RPG because people are far more likely to try it first rather than another RPG, and from it develop a taste for RPGs in general.

I was not talking about specific design. I was talking about achieving the exotic feeling that can attract people in the rpg experience and along with it make a combo that defines the hobby. It is exactly the taste I am taling about.

Your question also doesn't make sense, because the 4E ruleset relies on 30 years of gaming rule experimentation, development and innovation. I would suggest it could not have existed in its present form in 1974.

My question makes sense.
You know 4e. You can imagine people getting to know a game like 4e without knowing 3e or whatever was there before.
You also know OD&D and you know the history of the hobby. You can now imagine replacing OD&D with a game like 4e in 1974.
Now you can answer the questions.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I'm not sure I get what your point is, but 4E could not exist in 1974. It's the result of 30+ years of RPG development. Whether someone agrees with all facets of that evolutionary outcome is personal choice, certainly.

As for whether D&D is a gateway to other RPGs - it absofrigginlutely is. If you found 10 random geeks that played RPGs and asked them what games they've played, 9 of them would say some incarnation of D&D.

Hell, maybe that's what you're saying. If it is, you're correct, and here's an internet cookie.

WP

 

[The Little Raven]

I simply do not believe this is true anymore. Why?

I disagree. Why? Because when I mention that I play "RPGs" to most people, they look at me blankly. When I say "D&D," 100% of them know exactly what I'm talking about. To get people to understand my playing Vampire: the Masquerade, I often had to describe as "D&D, except you play a blood-sucking demon of the night."

D&D is to RPGs as Kleenex is to tissues.

 

[Crothian]

My question makes sense.
You know 4e. You can imagine people getting to know a game like 4e without knowing 3e or whatever was there before.
You also know OD&D and you know the history of the hobby. You can now imagine replacing OD&D with a game like 4e in 1974.
Now you can answer the questions.

If 4e was released in 74 we wouldn't have the "It's a video game" or "it's a ccg" arguments going. Of course that $35 price tag for the PHB will really turn off a lot of people in 1974. It would truly be ahead of its time and not like anything anyone has previously seen. And being released by a small company own by Hasbro would get it in a lot of toy stores right next to their GI Joes, so that would help.

 

[xechnao]

I disagree. Why? Because when I mention that I play "RPGs" to most people, they look at me blankly. When I say "D&D," 100% of them know exactly what I'm talking about. To get people to understand my playing Vampire: the Masquerade, I often had to describe as "D&D, except you play a blood-sucking demon of the night."

D&D is to RPGs as Kleenex is to tissues.

You can also tell them that you create and play something like WoW with a pen and paper. In fact they would more easily buy into things that can associate with Harry Potter or WoW than D&D.

 

[The Little Raven]

You can also tell them that you create and play something like WoW with a pen and paper. In fact they would more easily buy into things that can associate with Harry Potter or WoW than D&D.

That doesn't change the fact that D&D is more closely associated with the concept of RPGs, in the mind of the mainstream, than every other pen-and-paper RPG combined. D&D is the gateway by which the majority of gamers enter the hobby.

 

[xechnao]

If 4e was released in 74 we wouldn't have the "It's a video game" or "it's a ccg" arguments going. Of course that $35 price tag for the PHB will really turn off a lot of people in 1974. It would truly be ahead of its time and not like anything anyone has previously seen. And being released by a small company own by Hasbro would get it in a lot of toy stores right next to their GI Joes, so that would help.

Was OD&D like something people had previously seen?
OTOH without the feeling and spirit of "classic" D&D regarding its fluff (contrary to what we have grown ourselves with in the hobby) and with its focus on crunchy tactical rules wouldn't people see it as a board war/skirmish game? Would it have the same potential to growth?

 

[Crothian]

Was OD&D like something people had previously seen?

I don't know, i wasn't much of a gamer in 74.