The Illusion of XP

[Bonedagger]

Here's a simple one - magic item creation and spells that cost XP to cast. If you give out XP on a completely subjective basis, you are balancing an advantage of reasonbly objective, quantifiable value with a subjective resource. That's askign for trouble. It is far easier to keep the power gained balanced with the protential spent when you're working with an objective system, rather than a subjective one.

That's true. But I would rather compensate for that by having the players go look for rare ingredience. Like something from a Displacerbeast to make a cloak of displacement. That way the xp cost becomes less important.

By using the system, you gain a level of consistency that is hard to duplicate with more DM-arbitrary methods. DM moods can throw subjective systems askew. Players can get cheesed off when, by DM-whim, it seems they've gone through a lot of effort for nothing. Using the core rules XP system, the PCs are more assured of getting reasonable compensation for their risks.

There I would argue that players sould go through it for the fun of the history... To be able to say "I was there. I caused a difference". But it is always a problem if the players think the DM is trying to screw them. The XP-system in the DMG is just not my solution on that problem.

 

[Desdichado]

I prefer XP the way it is handled in The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game which, the more I think about it, is really most things I hoped D&D would be except that it's tied to a specific setting that I'd rather not use for my games.

Basically, the DM divides his campaign into adventures of various sizes. Completion of adventures gives experience based on the "size" of the adventure. The game also takes an extra (and in my opinion completely unnecessary) step of then dividing that up into something that resembles XP, but as the basic system is so elegant, easy and customizable by the DM, why go to the trouble to actually convert the guide on how often players should level into XP at all? The only reason to do so, I suppose, is for magic item creation and other things that could burn XP in place of levelling.

 

[bwgwl]

The players get XP for being present at the game. It may be different from session to session but pressent players always get the same amount. I assume people are there to roleplay so the game itself should be motivation for that (My funny job)... not the xp. I wish the game to be as much theirs as mine so I will not constantly judge their actions with xp.

this is also what i do when i DM. i give every player present for the session the same amount; i don't give extra bonus XPs for anything.

it may not seem fair on the surface -- the really good roleplayers might want bonus XPs for roleplaying well. but since i often have newbie players in the group who don't really know what they're doing yet, i don't think it's all that fair to penalize them for simply being new to the game.

also, given the holy grail of "game balance" that so firmly entrenched in 3e, i am very leery about anything that would allow some members of the party to level faster than others. no one likes to be the least powerful / least useful character in the party. giving everyone the same amount of experience alleviates a lot of this concern.

 

[bwgwl]

I prefer XP the way it is handled in The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game which, the more I think about it, is really most things I hoped D&D would be except that it's tied to a specific setting that I'd rather not use for my games.

Basically, the DM divides his campaign into adventures of various sizes. Completion of adventures gives experience based on the "size" of the adventure. The game also takes an extra (and in my opinion completely unnecessary) step of then dividing that up into something that resembles XP, but as the basic system is so elegant, easy and customizable by the DM, why go to the trouble to actually convert the guide on how often players should level into XP at all? The only reason to do so, I suppose, is for magic item creation and other things that could burn XP in place of levelling.

i whole-heartedly agree. i don't have WoT, but i believe it is very similar (if not identical) with the one in Star Wars. i really like the idea of giving experience per adventure or session instead of per encounter.

i've thought about perhaps implementing something like that in my next campaign. if, say, i want the PCs to level every 4 sessions, i'd just hand out 250 XPs for the first 4 sessions, then 500 XPs for the next four, etc. -- regardless of what they actually encounter during that session.

of course, it will be incumbent on me as DM to make sure the challenges they are facing are indeed commensurate with the amount of XPs i plan to give them...

 

[Snoweel]

Personally, I don't like the D&D xp system.

So I tend to assign xp on a completely arbitrary basis. Which means basically that I decide when characters level.

I guess I do this because I'm just a control freak, but it works for my game, which I consider to be quite intricate in verisimilitude.

As for the Giant harassing the villagers example given above, the combat option entails the highest risk, and therefore should reward the highest xp.

Of course if any other solution were to involve similar risk (which is by no means out of the question), then the xp reward should be similar.

 

[hong]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I've been using Windows XP for well on 6 months now, and it's purring like a contented kitty. I don't have any problems with XP at all!

Well, except for the exploding motherboard problem, but that's a hardware issue.

 

[Darkness]

The players get XP for being present at the game. It may be different from session to session but pressent players always get the same amount. I assume people are there to roleplay so the game itself should be motivation for that (My funny job)... not the xp. I wish the game to be as much theirs as mine so I will not constantly judge their actions with xp.

Fair enough! It wouldn't work for me (at least not completely), but it's a good method nonetheless.

 

[WSmith]

I prefer XP the way it is handled in The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game which, the more I think about it, is really most things I hoped D&D would be except that it's tied to a specific setting that I'd rather not use for my games.

Basically, the DM divides his campaign into adventures of various sizes. Completion of adventures gives experience based on the "size" of the adventure.

AMEN! I so wished the WOT "system" came without the specific setting info, but of course a motivated DM could lift the mechanics with a little, (ok, a lot) of work for his own setting.

Here is an interesting idea from the Who still plays Basic D&D thread.

Originally posted by WSmith Geoffrey, I like some of your ideas. I never used alignment, either. One thing that interests me is your XP progression. The only get 1,2,or 3 XP per session? Is the XP chart you use different?

And then Geoffrey responded:

Thanks for your kind words. The XP chart I use is indeed very different. It looks like this:

1st level characters need this many XP: 0
2nd...5
3rd...10
4th...20
5th...30
6th...45
7th...60
8th...80
9th...100
10th...150
11th...200
12th...250
13th...300
14th...350
15th...400
16th...450
17th...500
18th...550

As you can see, it would take a player (on average) only 5 sessions to reach 3rd level; and it would take 275 sessions to reach 18th (the highest level possible). Assuming one session a week, that would be five and a half years!

This was evidently based off Star Frontiers. Very interesting concept indeed.

 

[Bonedagger]

This was evidently based off Star Frontiers. Very interesting concept indeed.

I do like the way the numbers are keept small. It seems to have this psycological effect of keeping it simpel. But it does still leave the question of itemcreation.... But allow me...

By dividing the numbers in table 3-2 with 1000 and multiplying with 3 you would get:

1st Level => 0
2nd level => 3
3rd level => 9
4th level => 18
5th level => 30
.......
20th level => 570

Now. When the question of itemcreation would arise you would just have to dividing the xp-cost for itemcreation in DMG with 1000 and multiply it with 3. (Cost for Rope of Climbing = 0,36 )

Now that could also be used directly in Geoffreys system - That is multiplying the itemcreationcost with 3/1000 (It would not ruin any balance. Highlevel characters would just have more xp to use in itemcreation).

 

[rounser]

I've been using Windows XP for well on 6 months now, and it's purring like a contented kitty. I don't have any problems with XP at all!

Purring it may be, but it's also sending your shoe size to Microsoft. "It's not spyware, it's a feature!" they said, but we know better, don't we?

I suggest going into your "Windows" folder and deleting files at random whilst laughing maniacally. That'll teach it.