The Illusionists Guide to Reality

[Ovinomancer]

Sage Advice (as quoted above) says if the illusion includes sensory effects and/or movement, then it casts a shadow.

Not sure what you're getting at, here. Are you saying this refutes me, as 'casts a shadow' isn't exactly clear. If you believe it means 'actively blocks light as real objects do' then, no, I think Sage Advice is full of it and that this is nothing more than a weak appeal to authority. If you mean 'the illusion will have realistic shadows as part of it's creation' then we're in agreement -- you can create the illusion of a shadow, but it's not a real shadow.

The defining break I see here is what happens in late afternoon when you create an illusion that would, if real, have a shadow that would extend outside the area of effect of the illusion spell? I say 'no shadow outside the aoe.' What do you think the above says?

Invisibility is an illusion spell, for what that is worth. Most of the mid to higher level illusions pretty clearly do block things. Most of the lower level ones pretty clearly do not.

This is all covered in that sage advice video linked to above.

Gosh, Misty, if only I had said in the bit your quoted "unless specifically stated" then I wouldn't have that egg on my face. Wait a second....

 

[Mistwell]

Not sure what you're getting at, here. Are you saying this refutes me, as 'casts a shadow' isn't exactly clear. If you believe it means 'actively blocks light as real objects do' then, no, I think Sage Advice is full of it and that this is nothing more than a weak appeal to authority. If you mean 'the illusion will have realistic shadows as part of it's creation' then we're in agreement -- you can create the illusion of a shadow, but it's not a real shadow.

The defining break I see here is what happens in late afternoon when you create an illusion that would, if real, have a shadow that would extend outside the area of effect of the illusion spell? I say 'no shadow outside the aoe.' What do you think the above says?



Gosh, Misty, if only I had said in the bit your quoted "unless specifically stated" then I wouldn't have that egg on my face. Wait a second....

Nobody is trying to prove you wrong here. This isn't CM. That's why I said, "for what that is worth" and mentioned the coverage in the link. You are imagining a tone that wasn't there.

 

[Pauln6]

My long running character was a 2e shadow mage. I convert her to the new edition every time so in 4e she was a Warlock /Assassin hybrid. At the moment, she is a customised Warlock with the modified fey escape ability of the fey pact and life absorbing power of the fiendish pact as the shadow sorcerer doesn't quite do it for me.

This thread is making me wonder if there isn't a lot more potential in illusion than I first thought but what of shadow magic itself? In 1e it was just a way for illusionists to gain access to quasi real evocation spells and monster summoning but the dividing line blurred when shadow conjuration and shadow evocation became a free for all.

Could 5e sustain shadow magic spells for illusionists, Shadow sorcerers, and shadow pact warlocks? If so, would it be more sensible to restrict conjuration to monster summoning and evocation to a specific list like in 1e? I'm struggling to see why you need a broad shadow conjuration spell when higher level illusions do the same thing.

Most importantly, would the broad nature of the spells be unbalanced in a world where sorcerer and Warlock spell choice is so narrow and where bards could poach them?

 

[Imaculata]

Illusion spells are quite powerful in my campaigns. If a player throws a rock at an illusory wall, it will bounce right off if they fail their save to disbelieve it. The illusion not only creates the appearance of the wall, but also the appearance of how other objects interact with it. Throw a rock down an illusory pit, and you'll see the rock fall all the way to the bottom.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Nobody is trying to prove you wrong here. This isn't CM. That's why I said, "for what that is worth" and mentioned the coverage in the link. You are imagining a tone that wasn't there.

Not sure why you thought I thought that. This isn't CM, you know. I was asking what you were going for with your comment, with a few leaders for some answers in case that spurred conversation. Did you have an opinion?

 

[Helzod]

My long running character was a 2e shadow mage. I convert her to the new edition every time so in 4e she was a Warlock /Assassin hybrid. At the moment, she is a customised Warlock with the modified fey escape ability of the fey pact and life absorbing power of the fiendish pact as the shadow sorcerer doesn't quite do it for me.

This thread is making me wonder if there isn't a lot more potential in illusion than I first thought but what of shadow magic itself? In 1e it was just a way for illusionists to gain access to quasi real evocation spells and monster summoning but the dividing line blurred when shadow conjuration and shadow evocation became a free for all.

Could 5e sustain shadow magic spells for illusionists, Shadow sorcerers, and shadow pact warlocks? If so, would it be more sensible to restrict conjuration to monster summoning and evocation to a specific list like in 1e? I'm struggling to see why you need a broad shadow conjuration spell when higher level illusions do the same thing.

Most importantly, would the broad nature of the spells be unbalanced in a world where sorcerer and Warlock spell choice is so narrow and where bards could poach them?

"The universe is all in the mind that perceives it, and sensation is the first and only reality."

In past editions it was useful how illusions were separated into categories of figments, glamers, patterns, phantasms, and shadows. Weaving shadows magic created something real from extradimensional energy. 5e is a simpler system, perhaps this influenced the developers decision to backtrack on this principle. The only reference I see to it in 5e is the Illusory Reality ability, although Mirage Arcane does create without naming it shadow magic. I would welcome more from WoTC in this vein.

 

[Mad_Jack]

One of the most entertaining and useful uses of Minor Illusion is the creation of comic-book-style thought bubbles and sound effects... All sorts of hilarity ensues, and can cause all sorts of distractions as the mocked party attempts to discover the perpetrator.
Also, a thunderous farting noise issuing from the mayor's backside followed by an obviously-fake static image of a green cloud, or a beam of light issuing from the paladin's backside accompanied by a voice crying, "Ye gods, the sun really does shine from his < expletive > !!!" can completely undermine someone's authority or credibility.