The Immortals Handbook

[Zoatebix]

Remember back way back when I was bugging you about how you came up with your values for the classes in the Design Parameters of your v4 document? These guys have done some excellent work that reminded me very much of your design paraments. I think you'll get a kick out of it: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82858
Despite what it says in the first post, only the AU magic spreadsheet is on page 8 - the latest files are on page 9.
-George

 

[Alzrius]

Personally, I don't think they've topped FFIV.

Testify brother!

 

[Alzrius]

U_K, I personally think you should put in at least one universal dragon (preferrably, the weakest variety, since then the sequel Bestiary will have even stronger creatures...a sequel must, after all, top the original). Having a category of creatures laid out with not even one example creature to fill the category is indeed "anemic", and that's the mildest word I'd use.

On that note, will the next Bestiary have Universal dragons?

 

[Zoatebix]

Testify brother!

[Cecil as televangelist]
"I did *stand* upon the mountain. And I saw the minions of the Earth-Fiend: their empty lost eyes starin' at me, the smell of rottin' flesh and brimstone in the air! There they were - reachin' their hands a-toward me! Milon himself, hurling death, decay, and the power of sin - trying to claim my soul. My black blade, *FULL* of the Eeeeee-vil that I had wrought on the world was all but useless in my hands against the dead; and yet I fought hard! I fought for my very soul! I was not alone in this fight: my companions - the young and old alike - ancient sage and two innocent CHILdren did fight beside me! But our most important ally was faith! Faith in our salvation, faith in the power of goodness to over come evil. We all knew that salVAtion was a-comin. My hold on the black blade was loose, and its hold over me was over! I had come to the mountain to be sav-ed, to atone for my sins, to dedicate myself to combatin' the deeds of evil men - and salvation was just across this bridge! No demon of earth, no fiend from deep in the ground, and no army of lost souls could hold me back."
[/Cecil as televangelist]

Close enough? It sounds better when I read it out loud.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Actually, I'd prefer youto focus less on the ultra-powerful dragons and more on.... well, anything else. I suspect I won't have a use for them.

Also, a thought that just occured to me - some people will probably be annoyed by the inclusion of 'sci-fi' in DnD. I recommend you provide alternative names / flavor text for the more sciency-sounding space dragons. Like, the Anti-Matter Dragon could be the Annihilation Dragon, and the Quasar Dragon could be the Dragon of Unbearable Dawn.

I would be in this category -- if you must use sci-fi concepts in the IH, at least give them names so I can more easily ignore the influence.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Remember back way back when I was bugging you about how you came up with your values for the classes in the Design Parameters of your v4 document? These guys have done some excellent work that reminded me very much of your design paraments. I think you'll get a kick out of their excellent work: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82858
Despite what it says in the first post, only the AU magic spreadsheet is on page 8 - the latest files are on page 9.
-George

Thanks for the link mate I had a glance over it, but I'll have a more detailed look later tonight.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

U_K, I personally think you should put in at least one universal dragon (preferrably, the weakest variety, since then the sequel Bestiary will have even stronger creatures...a sequel must, after all, top the original). Having a category of creatures laid out with not even one example creature to fill the category is indeed "anemic", and that's the mildest word I'd use.

On that note, will the next Bestiary have Universal dragons?

Universal Dragons would be Time Lords, in fact Galactic Dragons may already be more powerful than First Ones! So there may well be no need for Universal Dragons.

Neoteric* Dragons parallel mortals.
Epic Dragons parallel immortals.
Space Dragons parallel sidereals.
Galactic Dragons parallel eternals...?

*Standard.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

Actually, I'd prefer youto focus less on the ultra-powerful dragons and more on.... well, anything else. I suspect I won't have a use for them.

Well of the proposed seven dragons only the galactic dragon example would be considered ultra-powerful (beyond immortals); the youngest space dragons range from about Intermediate Power.

Also in incorporating the space/galactic dragons I removed one previous monster (Diamond Dragon) and added three, so its essentially two bonus monsters.

I would be in this category -- if you must use sci-fi concepts in the IH, at least give them names so I can more easily ignore the influence.

Have no fear, the dual names shall appear.

Personally (as I mentioned before) I really like the marriage of sci-fi and fantasy at cosmic levels (which is specifically what we are talking about). So I may well have my favoured 'sci-fi influenced' name first and more fantasy inspired name second.

 

[Greybar]

Maybe I'm way off the (local) mainstream, but what I'm looking forward to most in your work in your "build your own" capability. I'm not really interested in UKCRs above 40-50 or so, but your system has been a lot of fun for making/customizing creatures in the UKCR6-30 range for games that I've run or planned. I'm looking forward to toying with building immortals at the UKCR50-100 range, but that's the tops probably.

Yeah, maybe that's crazy, but I think you'll find a lot more market in the range where most people play. I mean, other than a half-dozen or so people here, who really plans to run games in the UKCR1000 range? More competition comes with more market, yes, but I think you've already shown that you can compete there.

john

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Greybar mate!

Maybe I'm way off the (local) mainstream, but what I'm looking forward to most in your work in your "build your own" capability. I'm not really interested in UKCRs above 40-50 or so, but your system has been a lot of fun for making/customizing creatures in the UKCR6-30 range for games that I've run or planned.

Glad you have got a lot of use out of the system. I think in many ways its always nice to give people the tools to build their own games.

So in the bestiary alone there are some hopefully useful articles on how to not only build various monsters, but also on how to build various monstous societies. As well as a very insightful* article on size, strength and weight that, mechanically at least, is as good as anything I've designed I think.

*If I do say so myself.

I'm looking forward to toying with building immortals at the UKCR50-100 range, but that's the tops probably.

Understandably thats the range (sort of Hero-deity to Lesser Deity) where I can see most people ending up playing. But if people don't know about challenges beyond CR 100, then they won't have any impetus to 'have at them'. In the same way that most people didn't try gaming over 20th-level until after the Epic Level Handbook came out.

Yeah, maybe that's crazy, but I think you'll find a lot more market in the range where most people play.

Indeed, which is why thats the area I concentrate upon, but I won't exclusively pandour to one area because I want people to see that there are no limits.

I mean, other than a half-dozen or so people here, who really plans to run games in the UKCR1000 range?

The three or four monsters that circumnavigate that sort of power are really there to inspire people more than anything.

More competition comes with more market, yes, but I think you've already shown that you can compete there.

I'm honestly not bothered by competition, I simply want to write about the things I like...and thats high-level stuff.

Back in the days of AD&D 1st Edition when I bought the Monster Manuals I flipped straight to the Demon Princes and Archdevils, I never got excited about orcs or goblins...unless of course they were Gruumsh and Maglubiyet. The comics that interest me revolve around powerhouse characters such as Thor and Superman, I couldn't care less about Daredevil or Batman (though thats no indictment of the quality of such titles, simply that they don't inspire me personally).