The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Krust.

Hiya mate!

I'll do it. I recently switched cities, and the local gaming store has almost all of the 1st ed. core stuff, and it's all priced at $5 per book.

Sounds like a great store. 1st ed. Manual of the Planes is well worth the money.

It's like stealing.

Just don't get caught!

That makes perfect sense to me. Part of the 1st ed. problem (if its fair to call it that) seems to be that the deities aren't particularly balanced against one another* -- this is easily "fix"-able on a case by case basis though (particularly because the stat blocks are simple). I'm guessing that this was because the designers were only contemplating Deity vs. standard PC encounters.

Manual of the Planes redresses some of these problems.

*As an example, Thor w/Mjolnir does 10d10 damage per hit, while Demogorgon's physical attack (tentacle) maxes out at 1d6 (before strength bonus). Of course, Thor is intended (rightfully) to be more powerful than Demogorgon, and Demogorgon has more variety in special attacks and abilities (but many are next to useless against deities), but rather than having simething like a 1 in 4 chance vs. Thor, it's more like 1 in 150.

Thor was something of the poster boy for D&D Deities. Fortunately I have managed to retain Thors 10d10 hammer base damage in my proprietry stats for him, thanks to his hammer being made of solid orichalcum.

I've been doing that since you told me about it last summer. Because of the 1st ed. focus, I have just been doubling the 20 to 40 to approximate Hit Dice. Not scientifically rigorous, but it's a very good proxy I've found.

The Marvel stats are definitely off in a few places. For instance, Silver Surfer has GOT to be higher than a CR 23 outsider (which is the yield on the FASERIP/20 method).

It seems to work best with characters at Odin's level and above. When I do run into an obvious problem, I use your x1.5, 2, etc. method from the website to reach a happy medium. I think it works well -- using it has yielded a 1st ed. Superman w/79 HD and a 1st ed. Darkseid w/96 HD. That seems about "right on."

You know right away if the stats look 'right' or 'wrong'.

For many of the characters it takes my Theory of Superhero Relativity to determine which divine status they parallel.

Thanks again.

Anytime matey!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

U_K, just curious about something that may or may not have been mentioned yet.

Fire away dude, anything for the tiny bounding kitten.

Are their going to be new materials mentioned in the Immortal's Handbook somewhere?

Yes, in the Grimoire/Magic section.

I ask because I just saw the breakdown of the materials in d20 Future over on WotC's site and they're pretty impressive. Armor made of neutronite, for example, would be impressive even before adding magical enhancements.

Thats an impressive list of materials, although I wonder how truly different they all are. I only have half that many materials planned but they are far more distinctive (in my opinion anyway) than the ones on that list.

Btw, thanks for the recommendation about Gates of Hell. I just downloaded it and glanced over the various chapters and all I can say is...damn.

Yes, its a great peice of work by the Dicefreaks people.

 

[historian]

Hey Krust.

Sounds like a great store. 1st ed. Manual of the Planes is well worth the money.

The store is quite nice. I may pick up the MOP tonight. Until then, I've got some homebrew divine abilities that I'm using (that are based on some principles that I've codified from your comments here and in v4).

Thor was something of the poster boy for D&D Deities. Fortunately I have managed to retain Thors 10d10 hammer base damage in my proprietry stats for him, thanks to his hammer being made of solid orichalcum.

I'm glad to see Thor is at the higher end of the melee food chain (as he should be). He's an absolute masher in 1st ed. -- I haven't thoroughly reviewed all the deities, but only the Midgard Serpent stands out as an overt challenge (although the Celtic mythos has a few heavy hitters as well). The Hecatoncheries, with some lucky dice rolls, could also be a problem if Thor merely stood toe to toe "slugging it out."

Orichalcum . . . interesting, no Uru? The Orichalcum Golem is starting to remind me of my favorite Herald.

For many of the characters it takes my Theory of Superhero Relativity to determine which divine status they parallel.

Now that sounds interesting, maybe it's destined to be website material (or included in a supplement)?

I could use it, it would help me more accurately place lower powered beings and could also answer questions on some of the tougher calls. Take the Elders of the Universe for instance. Most 'run of the mill' Elders seem like demi- or lesser powers. However, I have witnessed the Runner easily defeat SS, so that probably suggests that he is a greater power (assuming no retcon). My impression is that Grandmaster and Gardener are greater powers as well (although Thanos was able to handle these guys in sequence with no real hiccups -- although he did have preparation).

Then you have Ego, which I have as a First One (maybe only an elder god) and probably a major manifestation of Chaotic Evil.

In cases of close calls like these, your theory would prove very helpful I'm sure.

 

[devilish]

I found the conversion guidelines on your site enlightening as well. I'm also tinkering with converting cosmic characters from Classic Marvel over to 1st ed. as well using a FASERIP/40 formula to approximate HD in 1st ed 9which incidentally would give Marvel's Surtur 183 HD, probably too many for an elder, so I divided by 1.5 and stuck with that).

Just went to the site and couldn't find it -- looked under offerings but
no Marvel stuff, unless there's some Super-Secret-S.H.I.E.L.D.-Section
of the site I'm missing.

-D

 

[CRGreathouse]

Just went to the site and couldn't find it -- looked under offerings but
no Marvel stuff, unless there's some Super-Secret-S.H.I.E.L.D.-Section
of the site I'm missing.

These?

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff1.htm
http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff2.htm

 

[devilish]

These?

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff1.htm
http://www.immortalshandbook.com/freestuff2.htm

No - looking for the FASERIP conversion tables (20 or 40) and
why/hows? I'm inferring that it wouldn't just be immortals that
would convert regular Marvel heroes too?

 

[historian]

Hey Devilish -- Krust is the expert on this, but the site that I typically refer to for Marvel stats (and I believe the bulk of their Marvel stats are lifted directly from the original source material) is http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast.htm.

I think you'll find that the FASERIP/20 method works particularly well for cosmic-level characters. It tends (IMO) to underrate lesser powered characters though (although again, U_K is the expert) which is why I believe U_K's Theory of Superhero Relativity would be so helpful in filling in the gaps.

BTW -- I also think that U_K's sense of the "big picture" would likely make alignment determination, particularly for cosmic characters, particularly helpful.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Krust.

Hiya mate!

The store is quite nice. I may pick up the MOP tonight. Until then, I've got some homebrew divine abilities that I'm using (that are based on some principles that I've codified from your comments here and in v4).

Another interesting product you might want to scope out is the 1st Edition World of Greyhawk boxed set - lots of deity stuff in there including the original Divine Abilities for all deities (four years before the material was amended in Manual of the Planes).

I'm glad to see Thor is at the higher end of the melee food chain (as he should be). He's an absolute masher in 1st ed. -- I haven't thoroughly reviewed all the deities, but only the Midgard Serpent stands out as an overt challenge (although the Celtic mythos has a few heavy hitters as well). The Hecatoncheries, with some lucky dice rolls, could also be a problem if Thor merely stood toe to toe "slugging it out."

Thor would kill anything in virtually a single round assuming he got close enough. Surtur is probably the next best (physically at least). Although I may just be remembering S'mons doctored stats where all warrior deities were given at least 20th-level Fighter abilities which gave them 4 attacks/round under our system...in which Thrin had 10/r.

I remember in our campaign there was a non-cosmic cinque of deities that would have on average defeated Thrin and they were Thor; Odin (Gungnir upped to 6d10 damage); Zeus; Mabelode and Surtur. Anyone else was fodder one-on-one.

Orichalcum . . . interesting, no Uru?

Orichalcum (aka White Dwarf Star Metal) is essentially Uru...just don't tell anyone.

The Orichalcum Golem is starting to remind me of my favorite Herald.

Well spotted.

Now that sounds interesting, maybe it's destined to be website material (or included in a supplement)?

Strictly website only.

I could use it, it would help me more accurately place lower powered beings and could also answer questions on some of the tougher calls. Take the Elders of the Universe for instance. Most 'run of the mill' Elders seem like demi- or lesser powers. However, I have witnessed the Runner easily defeat SS, so that probably suggests that he is a greater power (assuming no retcon). My impression is that Grandmaster and Gardener are greater powers as well (although Thanos was able to handle these guys in sequence with no real hiccups -- although he did have preparation).

Yes Thanos was the man with the plan.

The Elders are somewhat confusing by rights they should be Elder Ones (with the Infinity Gems that is) or Greater Powers. However they are generally narrowly focused individuals so it would be easy to manipulate their weakness.

Then you have Ego, which I have as a First One (maybe only an elder god) and probably a major manifestation of Chaotic Evil.

Very powerful Elder One.

In cases of close calls like these, your theory would prove very helpful I'm sure.

Well I'll see if I can update the website over the weekend. I have a lot of 90% finished material that I was planning to add to the site and have just been distracted with the Bestiary.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey devilish mate!

No - looking for the FASERIP conversion tables (20 or 40) and why/hows? I'm inferring that it wouldn't just be immortals that
would convert regular Marvel heroes too?

Thanks to CRGreathouse and historian for helping me out.

I'll see about adding the appropriate stuff to the website this weekend. The FASERIP/40 thing really only works for cosmic types. But the Theory of Superhero Relativity sorts that out.

 

[weiknarf]

Krusty...

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_Trans

might be another epic book