The Immortals Handbook

[S'mon]

What am I...chopped liver!? Have a little faith dude. This is me remember.

Not sure what this is in relation to...

 

[S'mon]

Vanya *spits* was probably on a par with Thrin.

Well it didn't look like that in the battle (Note to readers: IMC Vanya is a Greater Power & the chief goddess of Mystara's Thyatian Empire, statting her in line with 1e Legends & Lore she had 400 hp) - her 4d10 damage with each Gladius outclassed your 2d12 per longsword; OTOH fighting in her antimagic shell put you at a big disadvantage, it was a classic demonstration of "second mover advantage" among deities, the reason why they avoid messing with each other's territory unless they're ready to face the consequences.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius mate!

I'll leave out the obligatory mentions of how anything past the Freeza saga is complete fan guestimation (and, truth to tell, some of the power levels prior to then seem to be guestimates too, such as King Cold's power level).

Indeed.

That said, does "perfect" Freeza mean his final form at 100% power, or him as a cyborg, since he was even more powerful then?

Cyborg Frieza = 158th-level (4 levels above 'Perfect')

Likewise, though DBGT is nowhere near as good as DB and DBZ, it does push the envelope forward on power levels. Where would you rank Baby (in his multiple developments and possessions), Android Super 17, and the evil Shenrons (particularly Ishenron)?

Well that website has no ratings (as yet) for those characters, and since I have (at best) seen about 10% of the 478 episodes I'm probably not the best person to make a judgement.

However*, looking over the various Sagas I don't think it would be a mistake to suggest that their total Power Levels roughly double each Saga.

*

So I would suggest the following ranges for those Sagas:

Baby Saga: 1000 to 1500th-level
Super-17 Saga: 1500 to 2000th-level
Evil Shenrons Saga: 2000th to 3000th-level

 

[-Eä-]

Although this will be impossible to play, I think it may be interesting to look at it from a philosophical perspective.


Hmm... So what happens after the Akashic Records? I don't know if metaverse is the correct word here, bur here I go:
Perhaps there will be some new ascension of sorts, jumping from being the highest being in the multiverse to the "lowest being" in the metaverse? Where you look at multiverses as the atoms constructing the metaverse, perhaps?

Maybe there is something of a hierarchy as this: levels are class 1 power ratings, divine ranks are class 2 power ratings, and there may exist some level 3 power rating above that again.

Anyone else having ideas?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi S'mon!

Not sure what this is in relation to...

Trust in me to do the stats justice...I'm quite good at that sort of thing.

Well it didn't look like that in the battle (Note to readers: IMC Vanya is a Greater Power & the chief goddess of Mystara's Thyatian Empire, statting her in line with 1e Legends & Lore she had 400 hp) - her 4d10 damage with each Gladius outclassed your 2d12 per longsword;

Yeah but Thrin had more attacks and a far superior AC (even in Anti-Magic) meaning she wasn't hitting on a 2+.

She was averaging about 146/round (taking miss chance into consideration), whereas Thrin was averaging about 153/round.

OTOH fighting in her antimagic shell put you at a big disadvantage, it was a classic demonstration of "second mover advantage" among deities, the reason why they avoid messing with each other's territory unless they're ready to face the consequences.

Even so Thrin would have defeated her if it wasn't for those meddling kids*!

*ie. those 20th-level heroes who had the affront to attack Thrin and actually score a hit or two - meaning that when Vanya showed up Thrin wasn't at full hit points, giving her the crucial advantage, even then it was a double whammy of her getting a crit and then Thrin missing with one of his attacks (probably hadn't missed an attack roll in about a year before that) which totally opened the door for her 'jammy' win.

The annoyance of it all was that if Thrin had been wearing the Dragonscale Armour (instead of the +5 Full Plate) at the time he would have defeated her easily.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Eä mate!

Although this will be impossible to play, I think it may be interesting to look at it from a philosophical perspective.

Might be fun to try.

Hmm... So what happens after the Akashic Records?

You get to rewrite the rulebooks.

I don't know if metaverse is the correct word here, bur here I go: Perhaps there will be some new ascension of sorts, jumping from being the highest being in the multiverse to the "lowest being" in the metaverse? Where you look at multiverses as the atoms constructing the metaverse, perhaps?

Maybe there is something of a hierarchy as this: levels are class 1 power ratings, divine ranks are class 2 power ratings, and there may exist some level 3 power rating above that again.

Anyone else having ideas?

I suppose anything is possible though I have fairly clear cut real world similies of the Supreme Being and Akashic Records in the IH.

...on a slightly different note...

Also has anyone ever done the following kind of Templates (?):

Baby Template (HD and Ability Scores x1/6)
Child Template (HD and Ability Scores x1/3)
Youth Template (HD and Ability Scores x2/3)

 

[Ashardalon]

All I know of is the Young Magical Beast template in the Monster's Handbook Web Enhancement/Bonus chapter.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Baby Template (HD and Ability Scores x1/6)
Child Template (HD and Ability Scores x1/3)
Youth Template (HD and Ability Scores x2/3)

I'm not sure I like those ability score modifiers. You'd expect a youth, for example, to have full adult Dex but less than 2/3 adult Wis... yes?

 

[S'mon]

Trust in me to do the stats justice...I'm quite good at that sort of thing.

But I haven't even had a full deity appear in my 3e campaign yet, or settled on deity CRs or what books I'd use, and of course I don't have the IH, so there's no way you could come up with stats that would automatically be what I'd use - I'd need to consider them in line with (a) what sort of stats I wanted, and (b) any pre-existing deity stats I'd used. Currently if I used deity stats I'd use a conversion from 1e L&L & Manual of the Planes combined with elements from the Epic Level Handbook, I've decided to completely ignore the 3e D&DG ballsup. Since I use the Gygaxian quasi-hero-demi-lesser progression I don't even have exactly the same low-end progression as you. So far I have quasi-deities (Baba Yaga) roughly CR 25-29, hero-deities (Vantor & Karzalin) CR 30-34, and demigods (Allase, Serven) probably starting at CR 35 to maybe 39; from my experience with 3e rules in play I'd probably stick with a similar progression from there, ie lesser gods CR 40-44, Greater "Intermediate" CR 45-49 and Greater "Pantheon Head" CR 50-54, which could mean potentially heavily reducing the 1e levels of many deities including Thrin. Obviously if/when I get the IH I'll absorb it into my considerations but of course there's no guarantee I'll treat it as Holy Writ.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey CR matey (and thanks for the reply Ashardalon mate)!

I'm not sure I like those ability score modifiers. You'd expect a youth, for example, to have full adult Dex but less than 2/3 adult Wis... yes?

Well I was just throwing some ideas out there. I don't know if I would say full dexterity but certainly I see your point about dex and wis. Maybe Wisdom 1/2 and Dex -2.