The Immortals Handbook

Status
Not open for further replies.

log in or register to remove this ad

Hey historian mate! :)

That link didn't work for me.

Was this the stuff you were trying to link to...?

1. Thanos w. Heart of the Universe - destroy all realities
2. Living Tribunal - destroy reality/universe
3. Eternity class - destroy galaxy
4. Higher Level Celestials (Exitar; Lord Chaos etc.) - destroy space sector.
5. Celestials (Celestials, Cosmic Cubes) - destroy planet
6. Demiurge (Demogorge; Galactus; Ego) - devastate planet (probably destroy planet with a few blasts)
7. Elder God (Surtur; Set; Chthon) - destroy country (probably devastate a continent with a few blasts)
8. Skyfather (Odin; Thanos) - destroy city (probably destroy a country given a few blasts)
9. Death God (Seth; Silver Surfer) - destroy city block (probably destroy a city in a few blasts)
10. Superhuman (Thor +1 w. Hammer; Stellaris) - destroy skyscraper
11. Metahuman Maximum (Bloodaxe +1 w. axe - destroy large building
12. Metahuman (Thunderstrike +1 w. mace; - destroy building
 

Hi U_K! Did you post that list of beings? It's quite impressive! There is one part I disagree with though.

Upper_Krust said:
1. Thanos w. Heart of the Universe - destroy all realities

This one I have to disagree with. The Heart of the Universe was indeed the center for the entire Marvel Universe, and no doubt the entire reality contained within that sphere (said sphere being the one containing their reality above the Infinity Abyss). However, to say Thanos with the Heart of the Universe could destroy all realities quite clearly isn't the case. He absorbed/destroyed everything he could, but Adam Warlock was still unaffected because he was outside the sphere of that reality at the time (he didn't even know what had transpired when he entered it again). As such, it certainly stands to reason that the other reality spheres above the Infinity Abyss were certainly equally unaffected.

While Thanos with the Heart of the Universe is certainly tougher than, say, Hunger (who eats realities like Galactus does planets), it seems obvious he could never destroy all realities with that power alone.
 
Last edited:

Alzrius said:

Hi Alzrius mate! :)

Alzrius said:
Did you post that list of beings? It's quite impressive!

I don't know about impressive. I actually have a near full list of all Marvel characters from Thor power and up floating about here at home somewhere that I did a few months back.

Alzrius said:
There is one part I disagree with though.

Fire away...

Alzrius said:
This one I have to disagree with. The Heart of the Universe was indeed the center for the entire Marvel Universe, and no doubt the entire reality contained within that sphere (said sphere being the one containing their reality above the Infinity Abyss).

However, to say Thanos with the Heart of the Universe could destroy all realities quite clearly isn't the case.

You may have a point. However, if correct I think Starlin was wrong to have the Living Tribunal involved at all.

Alzrius said:
He absorbed/destroyed everything he could, but Adam Warlock was still unaffected because he was outside the sphere of that reality at the time (he didn't even know what had transpired when he entered it again). As such, it certainly stands to reason that the other reality spheres above the Infinity Abyss were certainly equally unaffected.

That does seem applicable. However if Thanos was able to destroy the Living Tribunal who can himself destroy an entire reality; it does pose some circular arguments.

Alzrius said:
While Thanos with the Heart of the Universe is certainly tougher than, say, Hunger (who eats realities like Galactus does planets), it seems obvious he could never destroy all realities with that power alone.

Possibly, although Hunger presumably grew in power the more he devoured.

Regarding Hunger; I always thought the entity was drawn far too 'cartoon-like' to represent a serious threat. I mean it was just a big black smilie face. Compare that to the Anti-Life equation from Cosmic Odyssey and theres a world of difference.
 

Howdy Krust!

This is the one I had in mind:

Feeble = 50 lbs
Poor = 100 lbs
Typical = 200 lbs
Good = 400 lbs)
Excellent = 880 lbs
Remarkable = 1 Ton
Incredible = 10 Ton
Amazing = 50 Tons
Monstrous = 75 Tons
Unearthly = 100 Tons
Shift-X = 1000 Tons
Shift-Y = 1E5 Tons
Shift-Z = 1E8 Tons
Class 1000 = 1E12 Tons
Class 3000 = 1E17 Tons
Class 5000 = 1E23 Tons (Planet)
Class 10,000 = 1E30 Tons (Star)
Class 30,000 = 1E38 Tons (Galaxy)
Class 50,000 = 1E47 Tons (Universe)
Beyond

...this ones for rank...

Typical Human
Trained Human
Human Maximum
Metahuman/Typical Immortal (typical Asgardian warrior)
Metahuman maximum/Named Immortal (Asgardian hero like Volstagg)
Superhuman/Named God (from mythology, such as Thor)
Superhuman maximum/Death God (such as Pluto)
Skyfather (outside home dimension; also includes likes of Thanos)
Skyfather (in home dimension; also includes beings like Dormammu)
Galactus Class (also Demogorge; Demiurges; Ego)
Celestial Class (Beyonders and Celestials)
Higher Level Celestial Class (Exitar; Lord Chaos; Lady Love etc.)
Eternity Class (Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Infinity)
Infinites Class (Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet)
Tribunal Class (Living Tribunal)
GOD class (Thanos with Heart of the universe)

Very illuminating IMO. I should also add that I agree w/Alzrius that there, at least theoretically, could be a being more powerful than Thanos merged w/HOU (If I recall the purple guy was unable to correct a fundamental flaw in the fabric of reality even post-merger). Although I find it very difficult to identify a fictional character offhand who would take him down (maybe The Source from DC?).

Of course, we could speculate that the HOU is truly a limitless artifact and that Thanos really could have done anything but 'couldn't' bring himself to will certain things to happen - this though raises some of the 'paradoxes' of omnipotence (i.e. could an omnipotent being create a rock that he couldn't lift, etc.).

That's one reason why my intuitions suggest something beyond 'logical' omnipotence, something that is simply unknowable by lesser minds, although the practical value of this intuition is zero.

Looking forward to the website dude. :cool:
 
Last edited:



historian said:
I should also add that I agree w/Alzrius that there, at least theoretically, could be a being more powerful than Thanos merged w/HOU

Well, that wasn't really the point I was trying to make, but I certainly do think that that is true (just look at The Brothers from the Marvel vs. DC crossover. Those guys are, from what I can tell, meant to be the absolute top of the power-chain).

(If I recall the purple guy was unable to correct a fundamental flaw in the fabric of reality even post-merger).

To be perfectly fair, Thanos did correct the flaw in the universe, it's just that doing so necessitated destroying the universe and then re-making it, exactly as it was, from scratch; a process that took all of Thanos's power after becoming the Heart of the Universe. Luckily for him, that also included remaking himself as well (without that power).

Although I find it very difficult to identify a fictional character offhand who would take him down (maybe The Source from DC?).

See "The Brothers" above. ;)

That said, I found it interesting that Thanos kept making veiled allusions that the being who previously had that much power (how and where were left nebulous) was, in fact, God; but also that God could not (or would not; presumably because of the price involved in power expenditure) correct the flaw in the universe, and so deliberately manipulated Thanos into doing so.

Of course, we could speculate that the HOU is truly a limitless artifact and that Thanos really could have done anything but 'couldn't' bring himself to will certain things to happen - this though raises some of the 'paradoxes' of omnipotence (i.e. could an omnipotent being create a rock that he couldn't lift, etc.).

I prefer to think of it that true omnipotence, in the most literal sense of the word, doesn't exist. There's just being who have such vast amounts of power that, on our measurement abilities, it becomes hard to see how they aren't all-powerful (to each other, though, the differences would be clear). Just imagine how the amoeba thinks of us (we'd be human Celestials).

Upper_Krust said:
However if Thanos was able to destroy the Living Tribunal who can himself destroy an entire reality; it does pose some circular arguments.

Only from a certain point of view. Thanos could (and I think did) have more sheer power than the Living Tribunal when he was one with the Heart of the Universe. The Living Tribunal can destroy the entire universe. Thanos did, and the Tribunal as well, so obviously he's more powerful than that. However, raising the bar by saying he could "destroy multiple realities" is assigning him power he doesn't have...either due to limitations on his power as is, or because the Heart of the Universe is itself limited to just the Marvel Universe.

The trouble is using the proper terms to quantify how much power one has. Thanos with the Heart of the Universe can do more than destroy a reality, but not so much as to destroy multiple ones...so he's more than the Living Tribunal, but less than the power your list gives him there.

Regarding Hunger; I always thought the entity was drawn far too 'cartoon-like' to represent a serious threat. I mean it was just a big black smilie face. Compare that to the Anti-Life equation from Cosmic Odyssey and theres a world of difference.

I thought Hunger looked cool when he was just addressing the reader. The way the panels with him were nothing but blackness with those vicious yellow eyes and somewhat-insane grin, and that he was actually talking to use, was rather intimidating. It was only when he moved into action that he seemed less threatening...like a large blob of black pudding with a face.
 
Last edited:

Hi CRGreathouse mate! :)

CRGreathouse said:
What do these titles (unearthly, shift-X/Y/Z, class #) mean?

They are references to old MSH RPG scores as follows:

Feeble = 2
Poor = 4
Typical = 6
Good = 10
Excellent = 20
Remarkable = 30
Incredible = 40
Amazing = 50
Monstrous = 75
Unearthly = 100
Shift-X = 150
Shift-Y = 200
Shift-Z = 500
Class 1000 = 1000
Class 3000 = 3000
Class 5000 = 5000
Class 10,000 = Krust only
Class 30,000 = Krust only
Class 50,000 = Krust only
Beyond = Infinite

The official rules only go up to Class 5000 and then have Beyond (Infinite Class). However there is a large gulf between planetary level effect and Infinite effect hence my expansion.

Also of note is that the official rules generally don't explain anything from Class 1000 up, or at least they are very ambiguous when doing so. Of course that wasn't good enough for me so I set about defining them.

Also the official rules definitions of Shift-X to Shift-Z when applied to strength are (according to my research) wrong. So of course i had to correct that as well and create a functioning progression.

As an example Thor is determined as follows:

Fighting: Unearthly (100)
Agility: Remarkable (30)
Strength: Unearthly (100)
Endurance: Unearthly (100)
Reason: Good (10)
Intuition: Excellent (20)
Psyche: Amazing (50)

Health: 330 (total Fighting; Agility; Strength; Endurance)
Karma: 80 (total Reason; Intuition; Psyche)
 

Hi Alzrius mate! :)

Alzrius said:
Only from a certain point of view. Thanos could (and I think did) have more sheer power than the Living Tribunal when he was one with the Heart of the Universe. The Living Tribunal can destroy the entire universe. Thanos did, and the Tribunal as well, so obviously he's more powerful than that. However, raising the bar by saying he could "destroy multiple realities" is assigning him power he doesn't have...either due to limitations on his power as is, or because the Heart of the Universe is itself limited to just the Marvel Universe.

The trouble is using the proper terms to quantify how much power one has. Thanos with the Heart of the Universe can do more than destroy a reality, but not so much as to destroy multiple ones...so he's more than the Living Tribunal, but less than the power your list gives him there.

The problem I have with that is; Thanos (w. HOU) destroyed the Living Tribunal and multiple Cosmic Entities almost with one blast. His power is clearly an order of magnitude above the Living Tribunal. Given that the LT can destroy a single reality with one blast we have to assume Thanos power is something significantly beyond that, not slightly, but significantly.

Regarding Warlocks appearance at the end of the story it could be that Thanos destroyed all realities but not Warlock who was indirectly linked to his Psyche or something...? Of course thats just a shot in the dark.

But definately the whole issue is muddled in confusion because of the Living Tribunals involvement.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top