The impacts of Fantasy on (fantasy) society
- Thread starter fuzzlewump
- Start date
Blackwarder
Adventurer
I thinkn that it's one of those books best suited for Open Design, think about it, having about 200 experienced and more experienced DMs hashing it out and coming up with a system neutral book concerning the life in a fantasy setting, could even have several sections, one for low magic, medium magic and high magic etc etc...
Warder
Warder
Blackwarder
Adventurer
Argyle King
Legend
That's exactly what I was going to post.
Quoted from the description: "GURPS Fantasy gives detailed, concrete advice for assembling fantasy settings – from the basics of the landscape itself, through its inhabitants and cultures, to the details of believable histories and politics. It also examines the nature of supernatural forces, and discusses the impact of wizards, monsters, and gods. And, of course, it looks at the many ways that magic and users of magic can work in a fantasy world."
I know it's not a D&D book, but it can still be used. A lot of the information in the book isn't specific to the GURPS system.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
The problem with that is that it is still "Medieval Europe" with a bit of magic tacked on instead of exploring how magic would fundamentally alter the society like it most likely would, especially D&D type high magic.
Andor
First Post
Well that depends on how common/difficult/expensive magic is. If your typical kingdom of 50,000 people has 5 wizards in it, one of whom is 9th level then magic has a much smaller impact than it would in, say, Eberron where every place large enough to have a blacksmith is also going to have a spellwright. *Footnote - Blacksmiths, being sole proprieters of the mysteries of steel, were once credited with mystic powers.
If magic limited to a few unique (tainted?) bloodlines it will be rare. If magic requires 20 years of study to master the 'clean' cantrip it will be rare. If it requires massive sacrifice (memories, senses, humanity, offspring) to gain magical power it will be rare.
All of that lies in the realm of the GM however, not the class description which assumes your PC has already passed all the hurdles.
By the way, this is one of the problems with class proliferation. If there are only Clerics, Wizards and Druids then each can be a tiny percentage of the population and magic is still rare. If you have 400 spell casting classes then each one of them need enough practitioners to maintain their tradition and it rapidly becomes impossible for magic users to remain such a minority in the population. That or you have to change the conception of class from a school of training to simply "How each guys magic manifests."
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In this scenario the book would fit. But such scenario is unlikely in pretty much every RPG, let alone D&D where you have not only wizards but also clerics, bards and druids. And all the magic items have to come from somewhere and even if the source is lost the items alone would impact the setting in a way not covered by this book.
And you also have monsters, many of them with spells. They would also change the society from what is described in the book, especially when there are few wizards to combat them.
About your steel example, so what when people thought making steel was magic? Being able to make steel still changed the society as the nation bacame more powerful compared to others and likely more warlike either to conquer or to defend themselves from others who wanted their steel. At the very least, steel would become a major economic base.
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Astrosicebear
First Post
Basically Magic in society is the crux of the issue. Therefore, because each setting/DM/game is different in almost every aspect except for the core rules, a logical breakdown must be the presence and influence of magic on the society. So the issues at hand would be dealt with differently for each category or world in which you wish to create/play. For example, the typical breakdown would be:
1. Low magic - Magic is virtually unheard of in practice. Magic users are rare and unique, as are magic items. Only a handful of people in the world ever gain knowledge in the magical arts or come into possession of a magical item, but those who do often change the course of history. This world also has a low level of monsters. The sentient races, if other exist besides Humans, are the primary antagonists. Monsters are as rare as magic and often influence the politics of the entire world. A goblin is not a nuisance to a farmer, it is often the harbinger of a country wide disaster.
2. Fantasy magic - This is the 'normal' level of magic proposed in the D&D system. It expects that magic exists, but only impacts society where powerful magics/items exist. Commonplace magic use to be expected, but unusual. No different than perhaps seeing a police cruiser or officer on duty in today's society. Some days you will see them all over, some times weeks may go by. That feeling you get when you see one, however, would be the same as a commoner would feel seeing an adventurer. A slight perkiness, alterness, or weariness. Overall monsters influence the course of towns and sometimes nations, and other races likely exist. As population centers increase, the percentage of magic users and magic influence increases in much the same way as technology in our world. Small towns may not have much modern influence, but large cities with a large magic influence could be drastically different, like Dubai. In this society magic impacts as much as technology did in say the 1600's to early 1700's. Most of the external magic that exists in this world is a counter to the internal, (the world maintaining balance with the players).
3. High Fantasy - high magic - In this world Magic is everywhere. It is our modern equivalent to technology, and analogous to it. In addition, magical advancements can go hand in hand with arcano-technology, making even more correlations to modern life. Eberron is a good example of this, where there is a world that everyday life is touched and influenced by magic. In this world it is not unusual for 1 out of 4 people to have some magical powers, either through study of a simple artisan cantrip for their labor job, or great study and apprenticeship. This is a world defined by the large scale. As so much magic exists, gone are small time worries of food production, labor, sanitation. As much as technology enhances our lives, so to is this world enhanced through magic. In balance to these great internal magical forces, where countries and nations are often ruled by the most powerful, great external forces must exist to balance the society. These external forces are often other magical nations. Monsters exist, and exist heavily, and often times in nations of their own, the most magical often being pushed to the borders of the 'civilized' world. This world functions on an economy rooted in the magical. If magic were to disappear, this society would crumble (much like if technology vanished for us).
So we see that logically, a DM only has to put themselves in the appropriate 'real world' era and add what level of magical juxtaposition for technology they wish to see the effects on their world.
It would make for a great read, and a great book. Moving into topics such as government styles, Oligarchy, Technocracy, Mageocracy, Theocratic, etc. and how each impacts the different categories. Going deeper in depth and dealing with magical warfare, sieges,construction, life in a magical society, etc.
1. Low magic - Magic is virtually unheard of in practice. Magic users are rare and unique, as are magic items. Only a handful of people in the world ever gain knowledge in the magical arts or come into possession of a magical item, but those who do often change the course of history. This world also has a low level of monsters. The sentient races, if other exist besides Humans, are the primary antagonists. Monsters are as rare as magic and often influence the politics of the entire world. A goblin is not a nuisance to a farmer, it is often the harbinger of a country wide disaster.
2. Fantasy magic - This is the 'normal' level of magic proposed in the D&D system. It expects that magic exists, but only impacts society where powerful magics/items exist. Commonplace magic use to be expected, but unusual. No different than perhaps seeing a police cruiser or officer on duty in today's society. Some days you will see them all over, some times weeks may go by. That feeling you get when you see one, however, would be the same as a commoner would feel seeing an adventurer. A slight perkiness, alterness, or weariness. Overall monsters influence the course of towns and sometimes nations, and other races likely exist. As population centers increase, the percentage of magic users and magic influence increases in much the same way as technology in our world. Small towns may not have much modern influence, but large cities with a large magic influence could be drastically different, like Dubai. In this society magic impacts as much as technology did in say the 1600's to early 1700's. Most of the external magic that exists in this world is a counter to the internal, (the world maintaining balance with the players).
3. High Fantasy - high magic - In this world Magic is everywhere. It is our modern equivalent to technology, and analogous to it. In addition, magical advancements can go hand in hand with arcano-technology, making even more correlations to modern life. Eberron is a good example of this, where there is a world that everyday life is touched and influenced by magic. In this world it is not unusual for 1 out of 4 people to have some magical powers, either through study of a simple artisan cantrip for their labor job, or great study and apprenticeship. This is a world defined by the large scale. As so much magic exists, gone are small time worries of food production, labor, sanitation. As much as technology enhances our lives, so to is this world enhanced through magic. In balance to these great internal magical forces, where countries and nations are often ruled by the most powerful, great external forces must exist to balance the society. These external forces are often other magical nations. Monsters exist, and exist heavily, and often times in nations of their own, the most magical often being pushed to the borders of the 'civilized' world. This world functions on an economy rooted in the magical. If magic were to disappear, this society would crumble (much like if technology vanished for us).
So we see that logically, a DM only has to put themselves in the appropriate 'real world' era and add what level of magical juxtaposition for technology they wish to see the effects on their world.
It would make for a great read, and a great book. Moving into topics such as government styles, Oligarchy, Technocracy, Mageocracy, Theocratic, etc. and how each impacts the different categories. Going deeper in depth and dealing with magical warfare, sieges,construction, life in a magical society, etc.
tlantl
First Post
I use magic to run my steam powered society. Most of the adventuring is done on the frontier where primitive societies or where monsters dominate the setting, slowly things change in these areas until the next frontier has to be opened.
I use natural barriers, cultural xenophobia, and the most powerful monsters to limit the expansion of technology.
Right now the world has a steam punk meets the wild west with swords feel to it.
When 3e came along they messed with the spells to the point that I had to decide what to do with them I simply kept using the spells as they were originally written. I wrote a lot of utility spells specifically for building things too. I have an npc class that uses these spells in their day to day lives similar to the expert from 3e except that they have spell casting capability, with their own spell lists.
I use natural barriers, cultural xenophobia, and the most powerful monsters to limit the expansion of technology.
Right now the world has a steam punk meets the wild west with swords feel to it.
When 3e came along they messed with the spells to the point that I had to decide what to do with them I simply kept using the spells as they were originally written. I wrote a lot of utility spells specifically for building things too. I have an npc class that uses these spells in their day to day lives similar to the expert from 3e except that they have spell casting capability, with their own spell lists.
