The Implications of Biology in D&D

[The Shaman]

There's no reason why Orcs in your setting can't be like the Uruk-Hai. If they exist in any numbers, it means...

1) They can breed like any other species.

2) They cannot breed, and someone is creating more of them. (Adventure Hook!)

3) They cannot breed, but figured out the magic that creates them, so they can perpetuate themselves. (If it involves an Artifact- something like the Black Cauldron- you have an Adventure Hook).

4) Half-Orcs have some 'splainin' to do.

Number one is also the source of Adventure Hooks.

Consider the earlier example of hippogriffs. Perhaps the reason hippogriffs used as mounts come from eggs or young captured in the wild is because hippogriffs are notoriously difficult to breed in captivity. Few have been successful with hippogriff hubandry, and those few will explain that consistency is extremely hard to come by. This makes harvesting wild hippogriffs the only reliable way to provide mounts for the royal paladins.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

snip
..<re: dragonbewbs>

Sure, a god can do that. But unless those bewbs have a function, over time they'll disappear.

No they won't, unless evolution occurs in the fantasy environement and even if it does then then the bwebs will only disappear if they impact negatively on the survival of the species. If the cost is low then they are unlikely to disappear.
But for evolution to occur in a fantasy world assumes that there are mutations possible in the hereditary material. This is not a given in any fantasy world.
It is not even given that hereditary is even a physical operation.

 

[JustKim]

No they won't, unless evolution occurs in the fantasy environement and even if it does then then the bwebs will only disappear if they impact negatively on the survival of the species. If the cost is low then they are unlikely to disappear.

They would never disappear simply because they're inconvenient. Maybe you already realize this, but it's a common misunderstanding that evolution is designed to streamline a creature for survival. Humans alone have half a dozen examples of vestigal organs and bones, whales famously have vestigal pelvic bones, and spiders have not-so-famously continued to grow a colulus for millions of years.

If having breasts makes a dragonborn a more desirable mate, the trait will probably strengthen in the gene pool over time. If the gene for breasts is an easy allele to form, it's likely to pop back up unexpectedly even if mutation and mass extinction does occur, even if dragonborn try very hard to suppress the trait. Even if the trait kills every dragonborn who manifests it.

 

[Derren]

Monsters being unnatural abominations without ecology is fine when you only encounter one of them. But as D&D adventurers typically go through entire populations of them there needs to be an better explanation than "magic did it" for why there are hundreds of unnatural things running around.

 

[Coldwyn]

Monsters being unnatural abominations without ecology is fine when you only encounter one of them. But as D&D adventurers typically go through entire populations of them there needs to be an better explanation than "magic did it" for why there are hundreds of unnatural things running around.

What do you see as unnatural?

Some God created the elves, another the dwarves, and so on.... that´s also unnatural.

I blame the human-centric settings of old for the logical problems with creation, biology and all that.

I think Al Qadim got it right with the "All Welcome, all equal"-approach to humoinds and other creatures, with a society that wasn´t based on races but on integration and acceptance of Fate.

 

[Derren]

What do you see as unnatural?

Unnatural = Doesn't reproduce, doesn't have any role in the ecology and only exists because some wizard screwed up.

 

[Hussar]

To me, this is udder bunk.

Hilarious!

Thank you, don't forget to tip your waitress.

Monsters being unnatural abominations without ecology is fine when you only encounter one of them. But as D&D adventurers typically go through entire populations of them there needs to be an better explanation than "magic did it" for why there are hundreds of unnatural things running around.

Really?

Unless your campaign centers around one specific race, how often do you actually interact with a given type of monster for more than a couple of levels? ((Note, I have not played 4e, so, it might be different there, I have no comment on that))

Low level, you deal with kobolds and goblins. Move your way through orcs and ogres, and you probably never see them again after about 5th or 6th level. With the way the level system works in D&D, it's unlikely that groups are facing more than a few dozen or even a hundred or so at most, of a given monster type. And, even then, those will almost certainly be humanoids.

As far as the hippogriff example, that's all it was. A single example. If it doesn't work for you, I'm sure you can think of one that does. My point is that treating monsters as naturally occuring animals makes them less... gack I hate to use this term ... wonderous.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

They would never disappear simply because they're inconvenient. Maybe you already realize this, but it's a common misunderstanding that evolution is designed to streamline a creature for survival. Humans alone have half a dozen examples of vestigal organs and bones, whales famously have vestigal pelvic bones, and spiders have not-so-famously continued to grow a colulus for millions of years.

I think we are making the same point here. I was perhaps unclear, but what I was trying to say that there is no reason to believe that evolution or any similar process occurs in a fantasy environment and that if an evolutionary type process did occur then they would be unlikely to simply disappear unless they had a high cost to the species and that it was hard to imagine a bit of unnecessary flesh like boobs would exact that cost.

If having breasts makes a dragonborn a more desirable mate, the trait will probably strengthen in the gene pool over time. If the gene for breasts is an easy allele to form, it's likely to pop back up unexpectedly even if mutation and mass extinction does occur, even if dragonborn try very hard to suppress the trait. Even if the trait kills every dragonborn who manifests it.

Agreed but only if genes or a similar mechanism exists.

 

[Derren]

Unless your campaign centers around one specific race, how often do you actually interact with a given type of monster for more than a couple of levels?

When I encounter a creature more than twice (that means two creatures, not two encounters) that creature I expect it to have a story behind it. That means either be a "full" race with an ecological niche or a very good reason why so many unnatural creatures run around.

Also, when we use Uruk-Hai orcs, meaning they don't breed but get transformed from elves, I want that to be reflected in the game world. Meaning if the PCs stop the abduction of elves and/or free captured elves the number of them go down. (Also, without captured elves in the first place there won't be any of those special orcs).

As for the Dragonborn discussion, giving them boobs is/was a "metagame" decision of WotC. For most people in 4Es target group female = boobs. Its not even about esthetics, but there must be some ways to recognice females.
A dress and long eyelashes are for children, shoulder/hip size is for older ones (compared to the target group) and also hard to see, colouration is too scientific. Whats left is female = boobs. It also fits right with the D&D target group of teenagers and young adults.

 

[Hussar]

When I encounter a creature more than twice (that means two creatures, not two encounters) that creature I expect it to have a story behind it. That means either be a "full" race with an ecological niche or a very good reason why so many unnatural creatures run around.

Two? Really? Wow. I have to admit you are far more demanding than I in backstory in a setting. Then again, perhaps it's because I don't care that much about setting and focus instead on plot. Unless there's a reason that the PC's should care about where the monsters in question are coming from, I'm not going to bother usually.

Also, when we use Uruk-Hai orcs, meaning they don't breed but get transformed from elves, I want that to be reflected in the game world. Meaning if the PCs stop the abduction of elves and/or free captured elves the number of them go down. (Also, without captured elves in the first place there won't be any of those special orcs).

Totally agree with this.

Then again, you are presuming that only one place is producing orcs in this manner. It could easily be numerous infestations. Heck, it could be a god given curse on elves - elf children spontaneously turn into orcs at a certain age and run away. That sort of thing.