D&D 5E The Larger Failure of "Tyranny of Dragons"

[Paul Farquhar]

If the GM is not letting the dice and rules determine the effects of combat, then yes, the GM is just telling a story.

It's quite easy for the DM to determine the outcome of combat, either for or against the players, without changing rules or dice rolls.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It's quite easy for the DM to determine the outcome of combat, either for or against the players, without changing rules or dice rolls.

True. And it's the same as ignoring dice rolls: it's stripping players of input or accomplishment. Why bother to roll dice at all in that case? Just tell the players what the outcome is, and move on.

Better still, just take up writing fiction, and cut out the middleman.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think this post is suggestive of a weakness in Hoard of the Dragon Queen, namely, that it needs some sort of device or technique for making the threat of the dragon background but not foreground/the immediate opposition for the PCs. But D&D doesn't really have any such device or techique other than GM fiat and/or fudging of dice rolls.

I don't have HotDQ, but it seems to me quite unlikely that a dragon attacking a town with hundreds of people is going to notice a couple of 1st level characters. The town's own defenders are likely more powerful than the PCs.

All that is likely to happen is they pull a few people from burning buildings and heal a few wounded.

 

[pemerton]

I don't have HotDQ, but it seems to me quite unlikely that a dragon attacking a town with hundreds of people is going to notice a couple of 1st level characters. The town's own defenders are likely more powerful than the PCs.

All that is likely to happen is they pull a few people from burning buildings and heal a few wounded.

Sure, that seems possible. But it is GM fiat. I think it has the potential to be a little contrived or anti-climactic, although @hawkeyefan has given an actual play account that shows that it doesn't have to be that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sure, that seems possible. But it is GM fiat. I think it has the potential to be a little contrived or anti-climactic, although @hawkeyefan has given an actual play account that shows that it doesn't have to be that.

Yes, as I said I haven't got the book, but it sounds like a little more guidance on how to run the encounter is needed.

If I was designing it from scratch, I would make it a red dragon, rather than a blue, so that there are lots of fires for the PCs to fight. They don't fight the dragon, they fight the effects of the dragon.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

True. And it's the same as ignoring dice rolls: it's stripping players of input or accomplishment. Why bother to roll dice at all in that case? Just tell the players what the outcome is, and move on.

Better still, just take up writing fiction, and cut out the middleman.

I do write fiction as well. But in D&D it's the player's decisions that determine the direction of the story, not the outcome of the fights*. If they go to the town that is being attacked by a dragon they might rescue an NPC who will be helpful later. If they run away the NPC is dead. Combat makes up a relatively small part of the game, especially since my players prefer to use negotiation, trickery and stealth to resolve conflict.

We aren't wargamers, and aren't particularly interested in wargames.

*Okay, there was one fight where a player did something so utterly stupid that most of the PCs where captured, and so the next mission became a rescue mission, but that was the exception.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, as I said I haven't got the book, but it sounds like a little more guidance on how to run the encounter is needed.

If I was designing it from scratch, I would make it a red dragon, rather than a blue, so that there are lots of fires for the PCs to fight. The don't fight the dragon, they fight the effects of the dragon.

There's an adventure in Dungeon where you do that but instead of a Dragon it's an alchemists explosion.

 

[Coroc]

...
A good example for your side would be Breaking Bad: from Episode 1 you knew the ending, but the path made the journey.
...

Well that one got me hooked on: The start of the first episode you see that unreal scenery in the desert and think to yourself "is this the end of the whole or the end of the first series?" but no, lo and behold, it was just the end of the first episode.
That's foreshadowing at its finest, an absolutely perfect start .

 

[jasper]

.....

Better still, just take up writing fiction, and cut out the middleman.

Brother from another mother. I use to think this way. But if you are going to post here you need to accept different play styles. That is "ACCEPT" not like, approve of, or play.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

Longing for the days when this thread was a tedious rehash of endless arguments over Hoard of the Dragon Queen and not a tedious rehash of endless pointless arguments over play styles.

This thread has become 'Your way of playing is BadWrongFun!!!'