The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer

[IronWolf]

updated on 22-NOV-02

I still do not play in Greyhawk; but I still love this book. Of all of the books that WotC has produced, it is still their personal finest hour. It is really too bad that this was not used to create a series of hard-cover books in the same tradition as the Forgotten Realms books.

But this has, in my opinion, much to do with the fact that Greyhawk is seen as the default setting. Strange. I still wish that the d20 Player's Handbook had been produced sans setting material -- and that Greyhawk had been given the full FR treatment. It certainly deserves it.

updated on 05-OCT-01

This one is the true gem.

A near perfect text of more information than I even have time to summarize.
Suffice it to say that the amount of artwork is relatively low, and so it came come across looking like an encyclopedia. But, aside from this, there is nothing bad I can say about it.

Go buy it. You will not regret it.

From a longevity point of view, I still find myself flipping through it -- getting an idea here or an idea there. I really like this book. Even though I do not play in the Greyhawk setting (I like creating my own), I find this book very useful.

 

[Messageboard Golem]

As a long time player and GM of many Greyhawk and Greyhawk based campaigns, this books gets very high marks from me. Admittedly, I was a little taken aback by the cover price ($26.95), but was pleasantly surprised after reading it. Overall, I felt it was worth the price. First, I will cover what I felt were the pros of this campaign supplement, and follow it up with the cons.

Pros:

1. Organization and layout: All of the material was presented in a logical, organized fashion that makes finding the information relatively easy. The books starts out with an overview of the planet, continent, calendar, etc.. It then moves on to descriptions of the various human, demi-human, and humanoid races and the various languages of Oerth. The book then moves on to a well written four page synopsis of the last 1000 years or so of Oerth’s history. Chapter Four the presents an approximate 120 pages of details about each of the countries of Oerth. The countries are presented in alphabetical order and include information about the major cites and towns, the country’s government and leaders, allies and enemies, more details of the history of each country, as well as a few hooks for possible adventures in each country. The various geographical formation are covered in Chapter 5 (again with possible adventure hooks) The various “power” organizations (such as the Circle of Eight) and gods are the covered in Chapters 6 and 7. All of the text is well edited to boot. An index would have been nice, but you can’t have it all.

2. Information on countries and territories not previous covered: There has been a great deal of Greyhawk information publish over the years, but there always seemed to be a few area of Oerth that got little or no attention. This book provides information on all of the countries and geographical formations. That alone made it worth while to me.

3. No information contradicted earlier source material: It was clear that the authors worked hard to make this work mesh nicely with all other previously released material. It covers what has happened before, then builds on it and adds to it.

4. All of the Gods in One Book: For whatever reason, the gods of Oerth were always handled in a sort of hit-or-miss fashion. Sure, a few of the major gods would be covered in such-and-such source book, and they have all appeared in Dragon magazine at one time or another, but they have never, to the best of my knowledge, been complied all together. All I can say is, FINALLY!

5. The original bards are back: O.K., this might not be something everyone wants to include in their campaign, but for a person like myself who remembers the 1E bard (the original prestige class), then you may appreciate the slight nod they give to them with a little organization known as the Old Lore. For those you who cringe at the idea, it is easy to leave out of your campaign.


Cons:

1. Missing a timeline: The textual historical information is great but it would have been nice to include some sort of timeline. Perhaps like the one that appeared in the original 1E Greyhawk sourcebook, but more detailed.

2. Grouping the Gods by Pantheon: I know that most of the pantheonic style of worship is supposed to have passed away and that the people generally worship whichever god is most appropriate at the time, but some organizations (like the Scarlet Brotherhood) and remote villages still operate that way. A little pantheonic information and organization of the gods would have added a lot to this book. This is a pet peeve of mine, some of you may not care.

3. Some of this information has been covered already: Some of the information covered in this book was covered in the quasi-recently released 2E Greyhawk products: The Greyhawk Players Guide and The Adventure Begins. Both of these products mainly dealt with the central Flanaess (which is where the City of Greyhawk, and – some would say – a lot of the “action” is located). If you are looking for additional source material for this section of the world and already own these products then you may be disappointed. There isn’t a lot of new information about these areas. If, in addition, you own the older 2E products: The Marklands and Iuz the Evil, and your campaign never leaves the central Flanaess, I would recommend looking closely at the product before buying.

4. The Art and The Map of the Flanaess: The art in the book is O. K., but not great and there is not much of it. As far as the included map is concerned – and again this just might be me – but I really think that the original 1E maps of the Flanaess are some of the best campaign maps ever done. They hang on my wall even as I speak. The maps that came with The Marklands and Iuz the Evil were good too (They hang on my wall as well). While the map included with the sourcebook is probably much more utilitarian and looks O.K., new maps done in the 1E style would have been great. I would have gladly paid extra money for them.

5. Softcover: It would have been nice if it was hard bound. More expensive, but nice.

Overall, I give this product a rating of 5. It is in my opinion what the 2E Players Guide to Greyhawk should have been. It is a qualified rating of 5, however, so let me explain. If you are new to Greyhawk, want to run a campaign there, and don’t own any of the previously released 1E and 2E products, then this is a must-have product (rating of 6 – off the scale) . It is everything you wanted to know about Greyhawk in 190 pages (not counting the two page RPGA plug in the appendix). If you own some, but not all of the older source material then this book will probably rank somewhere between 5 and 4. It will certainly fill the holes in the material you have. If you are a Greyhawk fanatic and own everything ever printed – even the old articles by Gary Gygax from Dragon magazine – then this book will probably only rank between 4 and 3. It will fill some holes, provide some new material, but you already own a lot of the meat in this sourcebook.

 

[Ron]

Flanaess, the eastern portion of Oerik, the continent in which the City of Greyhawk is located, was always a favorite fictional location of mine. Is the scenery of many great adventures as the giants raids and the subsequent exploration of the underdark (latter transplanted to Forgotten Realms), and so many other classics such as the Tomb of Horrors and the Temple of Elemental Evil. Also, Greyhawk, compared to many of the settings available, is casts shades of grey over black & white and, although is a high magic campaign, it is much more contained than most.

The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer is the best portrait of the Flanaess published so far. Although some reviewers found that it lacked the originality of previous products of the same scope, the LGG should be praised for its excellent compilation of several previously scattered sources and for bringing unity to the campaign. Also, it cannot be compared to other World Sourcebooks in regard to prestige classes and special rules. Being the default setting to the D&D game, it is arguable that Greyhawk should support only core classes. Even so, many of the prestige classes found in Fist & Sword book are already optimized to Greyhawk, supplying this initial lacking.

Some nice highlights: The map, although not as nice as the 1983 edition, is very beautiful and (thanks God!) has hexes. Each one of the entries of the Gazetteer includes comprehensive information on the history of the location, making it much more credible than most of the settings. About seventy deities and their religions are finally detailed in full, many for the first time (I believe that this is a record among the D&D settings).

A few complaints remains. I would prefer a hardcover edition, also, the interior art is not always consistent with the text (e.g., King Lynwerd should be a young man, different to the portrait in page 76). I was a little disappointed with the classes given to the NPCs. The authors clearly decided not to contradict with previous canon. This was a bad move, many of the NPCs would be better represented by new D&D classes. It is difficult to understand why Overking Xavener I is described as a Rogue. Perhaps the Aristocrat NPC class should be used more extensively. Finally, a listing of the Deities by Pantheon would be useful.

Despite the shortcomings, I highly recommend the LGG to any Greyhawk fan and, specially to those that were not introduced to this great setting.

 

[Clint]

The Living Greyhawk Gazeteer is a book describing the world of Greyhawk. Greyhawk is a typical D&D campaign setting of low-fantasy, where the world is described as "tough".

Physical Description / Criteria for Review:
The book has a nice picture of an iconic Greyhawk character on the cover. It is a perfect-bound softcover, and 192 pages long. I paid cover price, $27.
My group has been playing in Greyhawk for one year now, and I have been using this book as the guide.

To love:
* The writing in this book is modular in nature. I have had no problems stripping out parts and adding in others as I need. I consider this to be exceptional, considering the depth and detail provided. Barring all other points, it fulfills a large piece of "maximum value criteria" for me.
* The text density is high, and the writing is remarkably clear.
* The "Gazeteer of the Flaeness" and "Geography" sections collectively takes up over 80% of the book. Within are hundreds of well-described countries, states, cities and locations. Each country description provides detailed history, as well as notable peoples and interactions. They provide a huge variety of countries and landscapes to frame your story in: Feudalistic Monarchies, Militant Theocracies, Undead Despotisms, Evil Monk Jungles, Evil Demigod-ruled Empires, Lands of Humanoid Hordes, Barbarian Lands, Free Cities, and everything in between, as well as virtually every environment setting you can imagine. Thanks to the detailed history and descriptions, it all feels natural, from the sweaty jungles in the south to the ice wastelands in the north. To top it off, most entries have a useful little section called "Conflict and Intrigue" which provides useful ideas on how to involve PCs in that region.
* The "Greyhawk's Gods" section contains a well-rounded pantheon of deities, with brothers and rivalries. In my campaign, we had to pare it down to 45 gods.
* The "History" and sections are interesting and detailed, but again, modular enough that you can take what you like.
* The graphic design and layout is good.

To like:
* The inside covers provide 58 full-color coats of arms of the major countries. Very nice touch to be able to describe a guard in its country's garb.
* The artwork is sparse, and of middling quality. I prefer sparse artwork, especially when it is of middling quality.
* The subjects of the "Power Groups" section are interesting and fit well in the world, but are not essential to the world.
* It is nicely organized, with a good (if sparse) table of contents.
* The map is a full-color detachable foldout map which is of decent quality, although I would have liked a larger one.

To dislike:
* The class selection for NPCs is suspect. While the personalities and their roles in the world are perfect and well-described, the fact that this book was developed concurrently with the ruleset shows. An example of this are leaders which are high-level Rogues, when their description clearly calls for a high-level Aristocrat. Furthermore, multiclassing is not used as much as I would like, and prestige classes are completely absent.
* With so many gods, I would have liked a table clearly illustrating the relationships between and within the multiple pantheons.

To hate:
* The book has no index, which is a big miss on a book of this nature (an encyclopedia). The 2 pages describing the Living Greyhawk Campaign rules could have been sacrificed for this.

Conclusion:
I feel that I got incredible value out of this book. In short, if I had to pick one world-framework to run a D&D 3e game in, and I wasn't creating it myself, this would be the world, and this book would be my guide. Even if I didn't, I'd be mining this book for ideas left and right.

 

[Warchild]

This a very good product in terms of setting layout and tidbits of information that can seed so very many crunchy plot lines. However, it suffers from from two minor problems and one very LARGE problem.

Firstly, i would have liked to seen a little more history in the beginning of the book. What few pages they had was not enough for me to get a full grasp of the setting, not having intimate experience with this setting's vast background and years of supplements. However, this is relatively minor problem.

Secondly, there is no real information on the major npc's, no stats, no serious entries. Again not a gigantic problem as i prefer major npc's to take a backseat to the players and campaign, but having them dragged behind your car is too much!!! Not enough info.

The first two problems would not amount to major loss of rating(probably would have been a 4 for sure), but these two minor problems in conjunction with the next.........

Thirdly, there are no rules!! No feats, no prestige classes, no templates, nothing!!!
I already hear what you are saying....
"But...but, the class books are default for the Greyhawk setting!!"
Sorry, no dice. Any "setting" book that requires anything beyond the core books and the Setting supplement is deficient.
The fact that in order to get setting rules, the Greyhawk Gazeteer requires you to spend 80+ dollars on 4 extra books, is a gut shot to my review.

Bottom line:
The book is very well done, but to get the full effect of the setting requires you spend 80 or more dollars in extra supplements. If you already possess these supplements, don't mind the extra costs, or simply don't mind playing without any setting specific rules or flavor, then this book would be a very fine addition to your game table.

 

[Killer Shrike]

Ive been playing in Greyhawk for over 13 years now. I remember buying the old boxed set many years ago with birthday money. Cracking that pristine box open and looking upon the works of Pluffet Smedger (the Eldar, of course), unfolding the beautiful maps..... Greyhawk has persisted as my favorite fantasy rpg setting since that day; outlasting childhood, adolescence, girlfriends, 5 years in the USMC, 6 years of marriage, several jobs, dozens of friends and acquaintences, more gaming groups than I can count on two hands, and relocations around the US and jaunts overseas. Even when the setting was kicked to the curb by T$R and went 'underground' for too long a time; even when met with the uncomprehending stares of Forgotten Realms players when trying to get a game going, I stuck with my old favorite setting to the bitter end if need be.

Greyhawk is synonymus with FRPG in my mind. Thru major campaigns and story arcs, even conversion to another game system my love of the setting has continued to the present day.

So, suffice it to say Ive got an investment in the setting of both time and emotion, and thus am not exactly an unbiased reviewer.

With all of that said, as empirically and objectively as I can manage, I must give the LGG a full 5 stars. On a 1 to 10 scale it might be a 9, due primarily to overall lower quality intererior art, but such a nick isnt worth 20% on a 1 to 5 scale; thus on a scale of 1 to 5, the LGG goes the distance.

Why such a high rating? Because this is the book that Ive wanted so many times over the years, feverishly detailing campaigns and sessions with too little time and too many widely scattered sources of material, or worse a total lack of material period. This book manages to coalesce many of the crucial Greyhawk canonical works into one quality product while expanding material in many places, fabricating new material in others, and somehow managing to bridge the gap between the oftentimes widely different 'eras' of pre-Carl Sargent and post-Carl Sargent work (for the record, Im mostly pro-Carl Sargent).

While I have run & played in many Greyhawk campaigns, I persist the events of past campaigns in my version of Greyhawk; including material that I have had to make up over the years to fill gaps in the printed canon or altered canon to fit my purposes, and the actions of PCs from various groups. Therefore there are discrepencies between 'my version' and the official canon as Im sure is true of many other DMs Greyhawk campaigns, but that is hardly a fault on the part of the writers and thanx to the largely modular approach taken by the design team I can easily snap in replacement sections where needed without unduly skewing all other relevant material.

I remember Erik Mona and Gary Holian from the days of GreyTalk; in fact, I even played in a play-by-email rendition of the classic Slavers module run by Gary Holian briefly many years ago. They both have grass roots-level history with Greyhawk, and it shows. Though I will likely never meet either, I feel indebted to them both for providing this book, which is obviously a labor of love, to the community in general and me specifically.

To sum up, all players and DMs who have an interest in Greyhawk should check this book out, and all Greyhawkers both old-school and those who prefer From the Ashes on owe it to themselves to buy this book. Let me say it again. ALL GREYHAWKERS SHOULD BUY THIS BOOK.

Now that's about as gushy of a review as Ive ever given, but I cant stress my appreciation of this product enough. Oerth lives in the shadow of its over-commercialized successor Faerun and there is likely little we can ever do about that. Nevertheless the setting has survived in the hearts and homes of its fans for a very long time even when excommunicated by its original publisher, and with a quality product like this new players and old alike can reap the benefit of what has come before while pressing on to forge new adventures in the FRPG world which started it all.

 

[Killer Shrike]

I would just like to point out that this product is a GAZETTEER. Gazetteers are essentially travelouges and fact books detailing the current affairs of locales, points of interest, and relevant history which most anyone would know in such a locale.

The LGG fufills this purpose admirably.

It is not a rule book, nor is it a 'neat new add-on rules and gimmicks to spice up your campaign'. Nor is it a Personality Dossier. Finally, a person does not need to buy any of the class books to enjoy or use the LGG, and it does not in any way intimate that you would.

Knocking the LGG for not having mechanic add-ons (which really should be campaign independent or at most semi-independent in the first place) is equivalent to knocking mechanic books for not having maps and detailed backgrounds of the geopolitical aspects of a favored campaign setting.

The only thing one needs to enjoy and gain the full benefit of the LGG is the LGG itself.

Yes, there is far more info available scattered across 20-odd years of supplements, but no book could ever coalesce that much material into one product, so owners of vintage material will have some extra depth and breadth of detail available to them. Thats reality. At least the LGG is written from the perspective that a reader probably doesnt have such material rather than assuming and expecting the opposite. The LGG stands as an independent resource that fufills it purpose in every particular.

Giving it 3 stars because it isnt just like the FRCS is similar rating an apple 3 stars because it isnt just like an orange.