The Magic Items that WotC cannot publish

[Raven Crowking]

There's a major difference between producing optional unbalanced elements for a game with a solid foundation, and a game that doesn't have a balanced foundation to begin with.

For the design goals of 1e, 1e is balanced. It is woefully unbalanced for the design goals of 3e or 4e.

For the design goals of 3e or 4e, those games are balanced. They are woefully unbalanced for the design goals of 1e.


RC

 

[Windjammer]

Any magic item WotC publishes has to be LFR legitimate

I don't think that's true. Does LFR really bring in so much money that this needs to be a consideration?

Can't say about the money, but WotC announcted from the beginning that 4E would be "one ruleset to rule them all" sc. home play and Living format.* By contrast, during 3.5 and Living Greyhawk WotC released pages upon pages telling the LG playerbase which items, feats, and prestige classes they couldn't use.

I've been watching the RPGA influence on 4E closely, and except for the sidebars on hybrid classes in Dragon (which I mentioned above) and another sidebar on immurements in Adventurer's Vault 2 which directly address the issue, my claim as to "any item they make has to be LFR legit" rests on personal observation. The day WotC publishes an item which breaks that (perceived) requirement I'm happy to recant. Alas, 18 months into 4E this has not yet happened.

* See Chris Perkins' announcement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0DMw96UH0

 

[Derren]

This pretty much shows why I have a problem with 4E.
WotC choose balance over fun. Its better to have boring but balanced things instead of interesting but hard/impossible to balance things.

Thats good for a tabletop wargame, but not for an RPG.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I didn't, but that's largely because I don't consider artifacts to be magic items. To me, artifacts are MacGuffins. They exist to serve the specific needs of my campaign; therefore they are always homebrewed (and may not follow the artifact rules given in the DMG).

Well then you're at odds with people who want WOTC(or 3PP) to put out unique artifact-ish "magical" items, like the OP.

I didn't, but one of the main reasons is that I found most 3PP material lacking in quality and game balance than having an aversion to artifacts.

This product was printed during the late life cycle of 3.5 by Necromancer Games, so it's generally considered one of the really good books out there. Also, since it all about artifacts, balance is somewhat of a lesser concern.


Wait a minute, doesn't 4E have artifact rules of it own? Doesn't that fill the desire for "magical" magic items?

 

[M.L. Martin]

This strikes me as the latest round of a debate on philosophies of balance that go beyond D&D and back at least 20 years, since it reminds me of some stuff from Allen Varney's review of 4th Edition--that is, the 4th Edition of CHAMPIONS. From DRAGON #162 (October 1990):

I hear that [the HERO System's] open-ended approach brought a sneer from an editor at a rival game company that publishes another universal system. "Look at this!" he said of the CHAMPIONS game's powers list. "The put pictures of magnifying glasses and stop-signs next to some of the powers to warn you that the powers are unbalanced! If they can't balance them, they should leave them out."

A reasonable point. But like the issue of reality vs. genre, it admits of two approaches. In the Balance-or-Die version, the game's designers try to imagine every combination of powers and situations, rule on them at length, and automatically veto any they've overlooked. They treat rules like the Food and Drug Administration treats medicines, requiring exhaustive testing to prevent consumer toxicity. Once balanced, the rules become Holy Writ, from which thou shalt not depart.

I know players who prefer this approach, perhaps for the sense of control and stability it produces. again, the CHAMPIONS rules take a different tack by shifting the responsibility for game balance from the publisher to the GM. The rationale is that in a system that allows desolidification, time travel, clairsentience, and a dozen other story-altered devices, it's up to each individual GM to choose not only the story but the ways in which the players can alter it.

Though framed in a HERO context here, I think the question of how to approach balance can be applied to D&D as well.

 

[AllisterH]

Wait a minute, doesn't 4E have artifact rules of it own? Doesn't that fill the desire for "magical" magic items?

Very well done rules in fact. Best rules ever IMO.

I STILL am waiting for an explanation as to why those rules cant be used since "interesting magic items that break the game" should be ARTIFACTS.


re: LFR and DDI

Again, why do people keep saying this when it isn't true.

LFR does not allow for Eberron Dragonmarks OR backgrounds (and interestingly enough, neither does it allow for FR spellscars and FR backgrounds)

Of course, there's a line in the RPGA character creation document which says

*content that specifies DM adjucation is not selectable by players*

AND

*artifacts*

 

[Saeviomagy]

When I was in college, I lived upstairs from a frat. Trust me. The Kappa Sigs would've sold every suit of Deathcut Armor in the Trollhaunt for a never ending flagon of ale.

Like I said: we assume that it's not suitable for industrial production of ale (ie - you have to hold it and swig for it to work or something).

One suit of deathcut armor buys 5000 mugs of ale. In the scenario where your party can only have a single mug between the attendees, you're not really going to get a party with more than about 10 people before things get ugly.

So, 10 person party, lets go crazy and say they each drink a case (24 ales) every night. You've got 20 nights of that level of partying before a single deathcut armor is spent.

And that's at tavern prices.

It's not a very good proposition, even for a bunch of people who have no concern in the world except the consumption of cheap alcohol (and those sorts of people are not common in most fantasy mileu).

Now, if the mug is suitable for mass production, all the problems go away. It doesn't matter how much the mug costs, because it's extremely powerful. You can recoup its price (over and over) by just selling ale. In that case it's probably worth vast sums of money.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Though framed in a HERO context here, I think the question of how to approach balance can be applied to D&D as well.

I agree.

I've played/GMed Champions/HERO since it came out, and never had a problem with any of the "problematic" powers. In our groups, we as a group always had a kind of unwritten gentlemens' agreement not to abuse them.

And oddly enough, my current group is the same way with D&D. We're smart enough to be aware of game-breaking combos & builds- especially me, who surfs gaming sites pretty regularly- but nobody uses them. For us, its about a cooperative game, not about "winning" relative to the other players.

 

[Garthanos]

Use surges to use/activate as a very basic one. After that, get evil. After everytime you use the ring, three hours later you get attacked by wraiths.

Things like that

That could be solidly flavorful.. could combine it too... what if periodically in stressful situations you have to spend a healing surge because it senses shadow/undead around to attract if you do spend it the encounter doesn't get harder because of wraiths or whatever undead showing up. Of course the total concealment (see shadow band as the starting point) doesnt work against the creatures it attracts.

 

[pawsplay]

I think what Peter is saying is that WotC can't publish them as regular magic items because they would be head and shoulders above any other regular magic items.

At the same time, they don't quite fit the mold of artifacts because they aren't as complex (possibly no concordance) or because of the built-in assumption that artifacts will only be with the PCs for a few levels before moving on.

My impression of the referenced article is that the author is basically daring fans to ask for a book of "minor artifacts," slated to appear near the end of the 4e development cycle. Thereafter, it will become obvious that certain shifts in design herald 5e's imminent arrival. 5e will turn back the dial, reject 4e's ruthless balance and assumptions.