The Magic-Walmart myth

[Raven Crowking]

But, there is a difference here. KM is not using vague terms to describe his opinion and then expressing shock when people misinterpret what he says.

Please tell me how a term qualifies as "vague" or "descriptive" to you.

Or else please stop using these loaded phrases.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

When someone uses vague language that is chock full of connotations, it's not surprising when they get misinterpreted.

Like American English perhaps... the largest collection of buzzwords and shorthand filled with connotations that few people have been bothered with mastering?


I agree that the use of vague buzzwords and sloppy shorthand conflicts with the intent of reasoned debate, and in a debate class or professional circumstance where stuff like this matters I could see the equivilent of a 10 page sidetrack. However, on the 'net its my opinion that most discussion/argument come from a refusal to step aside from ones owns view of the world.

For instance, "The implication here is that any element with the "poke" prefix is also a children's thing, and, as such, only appeals to those whose tastes are the same as a child's. "

Poke-x has no such implication for me and therefore is simply a shorthand for the slightly distasteful handling of 3.5 Paladin Mounts.

The next step in your chain.. "anyone who likes the 'poke whatever' lacks maturity " is, IMHO, also a stretch. There are many great things that are targeted towards kids. The book "The Phantom Tollbooth" is one such wonder that I love to be able to read to my daughter.
Interestingly enough, that book would be good reading for those embroiled in this discussion as the entire book is crammed with vague buzzwords that lead to nonsensical stuff... like the 'Whether Man'...

So, in your opionion the fact that this childs book appeals to me means that I lack maturity.... and somehow this means the games I run are wrongbadfun? eh, nevermind...

Sorry Jack. Your posting on a board that caters to a dresses up version of Make Believe and, if mature enough to admit it, everyone here would agree that thier inner child enjoys this hobby of ours.

And as a side note, you do realize that Tolkien's best sellers were targeted towards children?
Unless you happen to run a Screwtape Letteresque game.. that would be interesting.

 

[Raven Crowking]

And as a side note, you do realize that Tolkien's best sellers were targeted towards children?
Unless you happen to run a Screwtape Letteresque game.. that would be interesting.

You're thinking of Lewis.

Although, The Hobbit and Roverandom were definitely written for children, and LotR is a sequel to a children's book.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I always get the two authors mixed up

 

[I'm A Banana]

No one is saying that you shouldn't do so in as strong a manner as you feel warranted. What is being said here is that using sloppy shorthand, hot button terms is a bad idea. Say what you mean without relying on whatever buzz word happens to be floating around and we can have meaningful conversations.

I am reminded of a thread where "great, clomping nerds" and "setting porn" were both construed as negative, even though they weren't necessarily viewed as such by everyone. Certainly a lot of time was spent in semantics jousting in that convo. Those terms were perhaps not the best for giving an actual discussion, but they were perfect for inspiring a bold reaction.

Turns out, MagicMarts and Pokemounts fall into the same category: they agitate. Why they do, how they do, and whether the audience is correct in allowing them to is entirely irrelevant. They do. The wise communicator would not use them unless their intent was to agitate, just as the wise writer would not use "great, clomping nerds," or "setting porn" unless they wanted to agitate.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I am reminded of a thread where "great, clomping nerds" and "setting porn" were both construed as negative, even though they weren't necessarily viewed as such by everyone. Certainly a lot of time was spent in semantics jousting in that convo. Those terms were perhaps not the best for giving an actual discussion, but they were perfect for inspiring a bold reaction.

Again, hopefully you can see the difference between a statement aimed at a person "You are a great clomping nerd" and a statement aimed at an idea or object "That's just setting porn".

People (often rightly) feel offended by remarks aimed at them, whereas while they might feel offended by remarks aimed at an idea (depending upon how strongly they identify with that idea) it certainly isn't rational.

Which is why, in that thread, people specifically objected to "great clomping nerds" but in general only objected to "setting porn" in terms of the question at hand: What is the value of setting (esp. as opposed to plot) in a role-playing game?

Another straw man, and one which has already been exhaustively dealt with upthread.

RC

 

[Squire James]

That term "straw man" is a loaded term. Don't use it.

As Maud'dib may put it, he who can destroy a conversation has control of a conversion...

 

[Odhanan]

As Muad'dib may put it, he who can destroy a conversation has control of a conversion...

Certainly, but then again, what is the purpose of a conversation? Controlling it, or exchanging ideas with other people who have different views than yourself?

 

[Ourph]

Certainly, but then again, what is the purpose of a conversation? Controlling it, or exchanging ideas with other people who have different views than yourself?

This is the internet. Do you really have to ask?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Certainly, but then again, what is the purpose of a conversation? Controlling it, or exchanging ideas with other people who have different views than yourself?

Given that a certain side of this conversation seems to have a vested interest in controlling the terminology of others, or preventing them from expressing different views (i.e., "pokemounts are childish" if they hold that view), I'd say that the purpose of a conversation very much depends upon who you ask.

IOW, I read Squire James' comment as being directed against the "wrongbadfun police".