The Magic-Walmart myth

[Doug McCrae]

That sums it up, with one major exception: You cannot, from a rational viewpoint, both fail to understand a word and argue that it is purposefully inflammatory. The anti-M view is that these mutually contradictory things should somehow both be true.

Ah, but what if the position is:

'Magic Wal-Marts' can be used in either a literal or parodic sense. If literal then it is near useless, if parodic then it is unnecessarily inflammatory. The fact that it has more than one sense makes it hard to understand.

That's not a contradiction.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It doesn't matter how I feel or what motives I truly have. All that really matters is if the word is useful for the purposes of comment. My rational, educated answer, is "No." Why? Because it doesn't convey the message it means to. My evidence? The first post, plus everyone saying "I don't mean that!"

Ad infinitum, ad nausuem upthread.

Are you actually arguing that you do not know what "Magic Walmart" means? Are you actually arguing that you do not know what "Pokemount" means? Are you actually arguing that you do not understand the connotations of either word? Because those are the requirements for arguing that the language is unclear. If you are not arguing this, you are not arguing against the clarity of language used.

If you are arguing any of these things, then how can you also argue that a term you do not understand is offensive?

If you are arguing that a term is offensive, then how can you also argue that you do not understand it?

The fact is that very, very few people have problems understanding these terms, and none whatsoever of the very vocal minority claiming that they are unclear makes a claim to not understand them.

By your reasoning, "hit dice" is not a useful term for comment so long as every time you say "hit dice" I demand that what you really mean is that you hit people with dice.

 

[Doug McCrae]

pro-M: Why shouldn't I use it, if I find that it works fine for me?

When one is attempting to communicate it's not just a matter of 'I' and 'me'.

pro-M: I'm not using it to insult anyone, I'm using it as shorthand. Please explain how it is insulting.

It's not insulting exactly but it's unnecessarily inflamatory. There are better phrases available to say what you mean. Why not use those instead?

 

[Raven Crowking]

Ah, but what if the position is:

'Magic Wal-Marts' can be used in either a literal or parodic sense. If literal then it is near useless, if parodic then it is unnecessarily inflammatory. The fact that it has more than one sense makes it hard to understand.

That's not a contradiction.

Doug, thank you for being the first person to actually attempt to answer the opposition, as opposed to merely saying "nuh uh" ad infinitum ad nauseum. Unfortunately, these points have been answered upthread long ago.

In order to be useless in a literal sense, then no one would have to know what is meant by Magic Walmart. As has been noted, this phrase is used in conversations regularly, and seldom do people claim to be unable to understand what is meant. Indeed, of the very vocal minority railing against the term, no one has yet claimed to not understand what the term means in either a literal or a pardoic sense.

Are you claiming that you do not understand what Magic Walmart means in a literal sense?

The idea that the phrase is unecessarily inflammatory has also been answered ad infinitum ad nauseum upthread. I'll quote Midknightsun:

yes, it is an issue of perception, but most human beings that function moderately well in society don't automatically assume the most negative connotation possible and internalize it. In my field we call that a half step away from neurosis. That's not a function of humanity, its a disfunction.​

 

[Raven Crowking]

It's not insulting exactly but it's unnecessarily inflamatory. There are better phrases available to say what you mean. Why not use those instead?

Example these better phrases, please.

 

[Raven Crowking]

pro-M: Why shouldn't I use it, if I find that it works fine for me?

When one is attempting to communicate it's not just a matter of 'I' and 'me'.

In this case, the phrase should almost certainly be understood to mean "Why shouldn't I use it, if I find that it works for me in communicating with my target audience?"

 

[Raven Crowking]

It's not insulting exactly but it's unnecessarily inflamatory. There are better phrases available to say what you mean. Why not use those instead?

Example these better phrases, please.

May I take it, then, that nothing immediately springs to mind?

 

[Nellisir]

First off, I don't think I can adequately describe my amusement at and opinion of this thread without getting a warning from a mod. Suffice to say, I'm not laughing with you.

Words and phrases come with emotional and contextual meanings beyond their literal definitions. You don't get to use a loaded term and then complain when someone takes offense. The mods here have proven it over and over.

The term "magic wal-mart" is a loaded term. You can shout "nuh-uh" all you want, but it is. There are other, less loaded terms to use, ie magic shop (or shoppe, if you want to be cute), magic store, magic mall (though that's not very positive, really), arcane emporium, divine depot.... I doubt anyone in this thread has ever described a serious campaign of theirs as possessing or being in the nature of a "magic wal-mart" without some provocation to do so (sugh as this thread) and an inclination (stated or unconcious) to go against the grain.

yes, it is an issue of perception, but most human beings that function moderately well in society don't automatically assume the most negative connotation possible and internalize it. In my field we call that a half step away from neurosis. That's not a function of humanity, its a disfunction.

This is true for most words, but some words are negative. If I call someone a half-wit troll, it's not a compliment. Similarly, if I mock, ridicule, insult, demean, dismiss, or otherwise denigrate something of your creation, which you have invested time and effort into and are proud of, it's not neurotic or disfunctional to take offense. It might not be the -correct- response, depending on the context (ie, creative criticism vs simple criticism), but it's understandable and normal.

Finally...the fact that I can recognize a term as loaded, derogatory, offensive, rude, or dismissive in no way indicates my personal opinion of that term, not does it indicate that I take the term personally - no matter how useful it is to your hyperbole to say otherwise.

 

[Nellisir]

Example these better phrases, please.

Exampled above (and not just in my post), "ad infinitum ad nauseum".

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

This is true for most words, but some words are negative. If I call someone a half-wit troll, it's not a compliment. Similarly, if I mock, ridicule, insult, demean, dismiss, or otherwise denigrate something of your creation, which you have invested time and effort into and are proud of, it's not neurotic or disfunctional to take offense. It might not be the -correct- response, depending on the context (ie, creative criticism vs simple criticism), but it's understandable and normal.

I quite agree.

But thats not what is being discussed. The apparently offensive terms are shorthand for mechanics based on popularly known, shall I say iconic, symbols in RL.
Somehow the negative connotations that certain readers apply to the popularly known/iconic whatevers get translated into a direct insult to that reader.


magic outlet, magic shoppe, magic stand, Bob's Bargain Barn, Magic Mart, Divine Depot etc...
What are the difference? Simple. Its the readers application of negative connotations. A dislike of the RL Wallmart of Home Depot, or simply outlet centers can lead to the erroneous translation of the term into a personal attack.

Otay, Magic Mart is offensive to a group of people on this board. Lets add that to the 'polite board usage' notes.


Based on the latin foundation of the word, denigrate is offensive to a group of people... lets add that one as well as a 'Do not use'

What other words shall we add to the Intellifilter?

My first suggestion is "ad infinitum ad nauseum".. . cause the term sickens me

...don't automatically assume the most negative connotation possible and internalize it.

Best advise I have ever heard.