D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Gammadoodler]

What's wrong with a 'magic' tag (or 'supernatural', which is my preference)? If you're doing stuff that is beyond what a mundane person can accomplished unaided, how is that not supernatural? And why is calling that out such a problem for some people? What do you lose by being honest about it?

If you're applying it to everything which is beyond real-world Earth capabilities

1. It has no bearing from a setting perspective. It'd be system-enforced metagaming,
2. In a typical fantasy setting you'd apply it to almost everything (down to hit points),
3. Who even is the exemplar 'mundane person' we're looking to use as our yardstick for this tag

 

[Clint_L]

It all depends on what those nice things are?

Meteor Storm has a range of mile and causes massive devastation in for separate huge areas. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Planeshift allows you to travel to other realities. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Fly allows you to fly through the air. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?"

etc...

There are some "nice things" that cannot be replicated without magic.

A level 20 fighter can make 16 attacks in the first two rounds of combat. That seems pretty nice. A monk can take half damage from all sources. A barbarian can be reduced to 0 HP and keep fighting, over and over. And so on.

It's true that in D&D a lot of the more reality-bending effects are called "magic" and you take those classes to get access to them. Then you hope you have the right spells prepared, stay out of melee, and know that you won't usually be the primary damage dealer, but you make your contributions in other ways. Often really cool ways!

 

[dave2008]

@Minigiant, I don't know if you have missed or simply avoided the question, so I will be very direct and simple.

Where is the line for you? If I am playing hawkeye and I want to continue playing past the mundane level, past what he does in the comics. So I want to be able to shoot a 100 arrows at 100 targets all 1 mile away. When does that happen, or am I simply not allowed to play that character?

Where, for you, is the transition from mundane abilities to supernatural abilities of the same type?

 

[Gammadoodler]

It all depends on what those nice things are?

Meteor Storm has a range of mile and causes massive devastation in for separate huge areas. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Planeshift allows you to travel to other realities. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Fly allows you to fly through the air. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?"

etc...

There are some "nice things" that cannot be replicated without magic.

I think this presupposes that
"Accomplishable in real life without magic" must have a 1:1 relationship with
"Accomplishable in a fantasy setting without magic"

I don't see this as a necessary (or particularly well-supported ) relationship.

 

[Stormonu]

How does that possibly look nonmagical to you? Those are all mundane actions, yes, but at an impossible level of strength or ability.

Dragon flies, fighter throws boulders :: shrug ::

Like I said before, the fighter can already fall off cliffs hundreds of feet high and dust themselves off afterward. Why not give them some other clearly insane abilities as well that can be used proactively?

 

[Minigiant]

Because that level of power doesn't make sense for a mundane character, unless you want to move into metacurrency.

Make sense to who?

Why can't you dodge a dragon's claw and shoot their eye without being supernatural?

Why must I be supernatural to know ancient Hobgoblin History to solve an optional puzzle?

 

[dave2008]

I think this presupposes that
"Accomplishable in real life without magic" must have a 1:1 relationship with
"Accomplishable in a fantasy setting without magic"

I don't see this as a necessary (or particularly well-supported ) relationship.

I do presuppose fantasy means magic. You have dragons and unicorns and all kinds of magic. Dragons have wings, but fly because of magic, etc. It hardly seams strange the people would have innate magic too. To me it seems to be exactly what all the media about fantasy stories are telling us.

I do use the 1:1 because that is the only basis we have to go on. Magic isn't really so we have to make it up, while everyone should be able to get an idea of what is really possible. If we use 1:1 we are all, in theory, starting from the same starting point.

 

[dave2008]

Make sense to who?

Why can't you dodge a dragon's claw and shoot their eye without being supernatural?

Why must I be supernatural to know ancient Hobgoblin History to solve an optional puzzle?

I don't think either of those are what @Micah Sweet is talking about. At least neither of those would count as supernatural for me.

 

[dave2008]

Dragon flies, fighter throws boulders :: shrug ::

Can you?

Like I said before, the fighter can already fall off cliffs hundreds of feet high and dust themselves off afterward.

Can you?

Why not give them some other clearly insane abilities as well that can be used proactively?

I have no issue with giving the fighter insane abilities. I just call it innate fantasy world magic, like dragon flight. A giant reptile the size of an ancient dragon can't fly in reality, but it can with innate magic.

 

[Stormonu]

Can you?

Can you?

I have no issue with giving the fighter insane abilities. I just call it innate fantasy world magic, like dragon flight. A dragon can't fly in reality, but it can with innate magic.

I don't care what I can do, I don't even qualify as a level 1 character.
We've got races like aarakokra that can already fly as a "natural" ability. Giants who don't crumble under their own weight being "normal".

Yet, when a fighter attempts a feat of derring-do, "it's no, no - put the rock down and stop being silly."