Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
Sure is, LOL. Oh, well. It's still got enough stuff I can use, and damn that map is nice! Just going to be more work than I anticipated to tweak it to my group's taste. YMMV.
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The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue
- Thread starter Kaptain_Kantrip
- Start date
coyote6
Adventurer
Re: Re: The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue
Somehow, I doubt anybody could top the insult done by Foobia's parents.
Kaptain, thanks for the info; earlier threads had sparked my interest in the product. But if I'm going to use an ultra-detailed city as a basis for an adventuring campaign, I'll want a city that's a bit more dangerous than Geanavue.
I'd prefer something more like Sanctuary (from the Thieves' World stories).
hong said:
Somehow, I doubt anybody could top the insult done by Foobia's parents.
Kaptain, thanks for the info; earlier threads had sparked my interest in the product. But if I'm going to use an ultra-detailed city as a basis for an adventuring campaign, I'll want a city that's a bit more dangerous than Geanavue.
I'd prefer something more like Sanctuary (from the Thieves' World stories).
Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
Re: Re: Re: The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue
Sanctuary d20 would be cool!
I still think Geanavue is worth a look, and can be adapted to a grittier, more dangerous atmosphere, but the amount of work involved to do so is a bit more than some DM's might want to take on. Even for a lawful goody two shoes place, Geanavue is bland and lacking excitement (see my earlier comparisons to FR's Waterdeep and Cormyr. Normally, one only needs to add so much "spice" to get the right flavor, but with Geanavue I have to throw in the whole spice rack!
Here's what I'm forced to chop out to make Geanavue fit my world (YMMV):
1) All KoK gods (fairly easy to do as only a handful are listed)
2) most place/people names--the hardest part as there are dozens (if not hundreds) of them all too weird or silly sounding...
3) Stone Giants vs. Fire Giants (try NO freakin' giants!)
4) Gnomes, Dwarves as city protectors (to be replaced with more conventional human troops)
Here's what stays (more or less) intact:
1) Most Guilds
2) Noble Houses
3) "Fox" tax collectors (a cool idea and scary fox mask to boot)
4) Most businesses
5) Number (not necessarily nature) of people and troops and their class levels
6) Economics/Trade
Here's what I'm forced to add:
1) More open slave trade
2) More street crime/more organized crime
3) More crazed nobles (by replacing existing ones in most cases, using the former Council of lords from Zhentil Keep as my inspiration, if not an out and out cut and paste job)
4) More conflict with surrounding city-states/nations
5) More racial tension
6) More dangerous cults
7) More evil conspiracies
8) More poverty stricken areas inside the city walls
9) More class/caste tension
* 10) Loona (sprawling ghetto port area not adequately detailed in Geanavue book)
I suppose I would not have to add Loona if I set the city farther inland... I need to decide whether Geanavue (to be renamed something less pretty sounding) will be its own city-state or just another city in a larger nation. Not sure which yet. Being a lawful good city originally, it would be much easier to switch it to a lawful neutral/lawful evil trading center than anything else. Kind of like Zhentil Keep, but with a slightly better reputation, LOL.
coyote6 said:
Somehow, I doubt anybody could top the insult done by Foobia's parents.
Kaptain, thanks for the info; earlier threads had sparked my interest in the product. But if I'm going to use an ultra-detailed city as a basis for an adventuring campaign, I'll want a city that's a bit more dangerous than Geanavue.
I'd prefer something more like Sanctuary (from the Thieves' World stories).
Sanctuary d20 would be cool!
I still think Geanavue is worth a look, and can be adapted to a grittier, more dangerous atmosphere, but the amount of work involved to do so is a bit more than some DM's might want to take on. Even for a lawful goody two shoes place, Geanavue is bland and lacking excitement (see my earlier comparisons to FR's Waterdeep and Cormyr. Normally, one only needs to add so much "spice" to get the right flavor, but with Geanavue I have to throw in the whole spice rack!
Here's what I'm forced to chop out to make Geanavue fit my world (YMMV):
1) All KoK gods (fairly easy to do as only a handful are listed)
2) most place/people names--the hardest part as there are dozens (if not hundreds) of them all too weird or silly sounding...
3) Stone Giants vs. Fire Giants (try NO freakin' giants!)
4) Gnomes, Dwarves as city protectors (to be replaced with more conventional human troops)
Here's what stays (more or less) intact:
1) Most Guilds
2) Noble Houses
3) "Fox" tax collectors (a cool idea and scary fox mask to boot)
4) Most businesses
5) Number (not necessarily nature) of people and troops and their class levels
6) Economics/Trade
Here's what I'm forced to add:
1) More open slave trade
2) More street crime/more organized crime
3) More crazed nobles (by replacing existing ones in most cases, using the former Council of lords from Zhentil Keep as my inspiration, if not an out and out cut and paste job)
4) More conflict with surrounding city-states/nations
5) More racial tension
6) More dangerous cults
7) More evil conspiracies
8) More poverty stricken areas inside the city walls
9) More class/caste tension
* 10) Loona (sprawling ghetto port area not adequately detailed in Geanavue book)
I suppose I would not have to add Loona if I set the city farther inland... I need to decide whether Geanavue (to be renamed something less pretty sounding) will be its own city-state or just another city in a larger nation. Not sure which yet. Being a lawful good city originally, it would be much easier to switch it to a lawful neutral/lawful evil trading center than anything else. Kind of like Zhentil Keep, but with a slightly better reputation, LOL.
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Well not to dismiss Genuave out right, but I do think from what I've read and heard...this isn't a city I'd like to visit compared to say Freeport, Hollowfaust, Bluffside, Bard's Gate or even just Mithril.
I do think though Hollowfaust can be pretty DARN gritty...just have to keep your body intact long enough! But then I'm a fan of a city of Necromancers, especially non-evil ones.
I do think though Hollowfaust can be pretty DARN gritty...just have to keep your body intact long enough!
But then I'm a fan of a city of Necromancers, especially non-evil ones.
Zerovoid
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue
It sounds like you don't want a LG city at all. At first you were just saying it didn't have enough conflict, but now you want to change the alignment, and expand the slave trade...
Also, I wonder how many of those ten things that you want to add you really need to spice up the setting. I can easily imagine a group of PC's being occupied for several levels dealing with the mechinations of one crazed noble or evil cult.
Kaptain_Kantrip said:
Being a lawful good city originally, it would be much easier to switch it to a lawful neutral/lawful evil trading center than anything else. Kind of like Zhentil Keep, but with a slightly better reputation, LOL.
It sounds like you don't want a LG city at all. At first you were just saying it didn't have enough conflict, but now you want to change the alignment, and expand the slave trade...
Also, I wonder how many of those ten things that you want to add you really need to spice up the setting. I can easily imagine a group of PC's being occupied for several levels dealing with the mechinations of one crazed noble or evil cult.
Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
No, I don't want a LG city at all, unless it is militant and nearly as ruthless and expansionist as its enemies, like Cormyr in FR, always thinking about "annexing" the Dales for the "safety of its people" and so they can get an easier shot at taking out the Zhents and other Moonsea city-states, if need be. You know the kind, "we know what's best for you, so conform or be punished!").
Cormyr: "We can't believe you don't want us to "help" you! You're just a bunch of chaotic peasants and no match for the depradations of the Zhents! They'll have you under their yoke of tyranny within a few years at best unless you let us in to fortify your defenses and organize you into something better, all unified under the great and noble flag of Cormyr!"
Elminster: "Buzz off, ye sanctimonious lackey of law. We dalesmen can fend for ourselves."
Cormyr: "We can't believe you don't want us to "help" you! You're just a bunch of chaotic peasants and no match for the depradations of the Zhents! They'll have you under their yoke of tyranny within a few years at best unless you let us in to fortify your defenses and organize you into something better, all unified under the great and noble flag of Cormyr!"
Elminster: "Buzz off, ye sanctimonious lackey of law. We dalesmen can fend for ourselves."
Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
I either play lawful or chaotic types (I'm into extremes, LOL). I don't know what to do with myself when I'm Neutral.
My Top 3 favorite gaming cities:
LN/LE: Ruins of Zhentil Keep (though I liked it better pre-ruins)
N/NE: Lankhmar
CG/CN/CE: Deeptown in 3 Days To Kill (at least the way we played it)
We always played Cormyr as a militant/expansionist LG/LN, as I mentioned in my previous post, which is perhaps more extreme of an approach than that taken in the official Realms material, but not by much. We loved to hate those Cormyte do-gooders who thought they knew everything!
Waterdeep was just lame, as was Shadowdale, which wins as the ultimate in lameness thanks to Edminster's self-glorifying munchkinism.
My Top 3 favorite gaming cities:
LN/LE: Ruins of Zhentil Keep (though I liked it better pre-ruins)
N/NE: Lankhmar
CG/CN/CE: Deeptown in 3 Days To Kill (at least the way we played it)
We always played Cormyr as a militant/expansionist LG/LN, as I mentioned in my previous post, which is perhaps more extreme of an approach than that taken in the official Realms material, but not by much. We loved to hate those Cormyte do-gooders who thought they knew everything!
Waterdeep was just lame, as was Shadowdale, which wins as the ultimate in lameness thanks to Edminster's self-glorifying munchkinism.
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Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Well let's see if I can give you a run down then (I'm semi-familiar with TWO cities you mentioned) of the ones I mentioned as well
Mithril (depending on which part of the city, the temple or the docks) LG/NG to CN/CG.
Hollowfaust: N/LN/NE
Freeport: DEFINATELY CN. Course there's probably some NG/N/NE going down too.
Bluffside: Well this is a DIVERSE city since it's not just ONE city, more like FOUR. Klugie could probably fill you in, but I figure it runs the gammut of the alignments pretty well.
Bard's Gate: NG/NE with some CE mixed in since it's got Orcus near by.
That's pretty much it for my favorite cities.
Mithril (depending on which part of the city, the temple or the docks) LG/NG to CN/CG.
Hollowfaust: N/LN/NE
Freeport: DEFINATELY CN. Course there's probably some NG/N/NE going down too.
Bluffside: Well this is a DIVERSE city since it's not just ONE city, more like FOUR. Klugie could probably fill you in, but I figure it runs the gammut of the alignments pretty well.
Bard's Gate: NG/NE with some CE mixed in since it's got Orcus near by.
That's pretty much it for my favorite cities.
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