The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue

[trancejeremy]

I'm surprised Kenzer picked Genuave for a sourcebook.

I don't have it, but I do have the main Kalamar book. Genuave is probably about the dullest city in the book. And one of the smaller ones, too.

For instance:

Thygasha - Pop 36,000, big conflict between rival temples, has organized crime, has a new type of sorcerer, several ruins near it

Zoa - 50,000 people, big trade city, exotic, big influx of refugees.

Well, there are at least a dozen other interesting cities. But instead they basically pick the Mayberry of Kalamar.

 

[TeaBee]

So... the main argument is, that it's not like every other city supplement ever released, so not any good?

I haven't picked up any Kalamar stuff (yet) but I would think a city that's detailed, but not like every other city book before it, would be a good thing.

Maybe it's just me.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Maybe it's just me.

It's just you.

Seriously, the level of detail in this product is amazing, it's WHAT is detailed that puts me to sleep. Geanavue indeed seems a poor choice for a city supplement when more strife-laden, cosmopolitan cities like Zoa exist. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of Geanavue as the "Mayberry" of Kalamar, LOL!

Innovation is a good thing. Geanavue is innovative in that it provides a level of detail only rarely seen before (Lankhmar, Baldemar, City-State of the Invincible Overlord). The dual city/undercity map is innovative and perfectly executed. The problem is that Geanavue is NOT EXCITING. I get NO feeling of fun, danger or titillation from reading its dry, dusty pages. It has everything and yet nothing going for it. It's frustrating beyond belief, as I really WANT to like this book. But it won't let me!

 

[Scarogoth]

It's just you.

Seriously, the level of detail in this product is amazing, it's WHAT is detailed that puts me to sleep. Geanavue indeed seems a poor choice for a city supplement when more strife-laden, cosmopolitan cities like Zoa exist. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of Geanavue as the "Mayberry" of Kalamar, LOL!

Innovation is a good thing. Geanavue is innovative in that it provides a level of detail only rarely seen before (Lankhmar, Baldemar, City-State of the Invincible Overlord). The dual city/undercity map is innovative and perfectly executed. The problem is that Geanavue is NOT EXCITING. I get NO feeling of fun, danger or titillation from reading its dry, dusty pages. It has everything and yet nothing going for it. It's frustrating beyond belief, as I really WANT to like this book. But it won't let me!

It almost sounds like you expect this to be like an adventure. Kenzer & Co have done ten or more of those, and they're all excellent. This was a sourcebook that fleshes out in detail one city, in one part of the country, on one continent of an already highly-detailed world. Think of it as a test run for the talented Mr Greenwood. Having done this, maybe he (or others) will be given the joys of bringing other (more dangerous) parts of the country to life! Then Geanavue can be somewhere your party holes up in relative safety before exploring some other realm.

Personally, one of the things that has always appealed to me about Kalamar is the intense "reality" (if that isn't a contradiction when applied to a fantasy setting) of their campaign world. A city that truly had evil rulers, a criminal underworld, bestial monsters in the sewers, undead in the graveyards, vicous, lawful-evil clerics administering to and sacrificing the generally unhappy citizens (when they find some that are not being crushed by fire-giants, that is) would self-destruct and implode within days. Geanavue is "real". It is a sealed ecosystem and social hierarchy that appears to work, and has done for centuries, just like many cities over here. Of course, there is intrigue, but much of it is unspoken and suggested (hence the RumourQuest system!) just like real life. The care lavished on this (as you rightly point out) is simply staggering, and I'm pleased to have it in my Kalamar collection.

Fortunately, I have all the adventures and the Campaign setting to provide all the stuff that you say is missing. I congratulate Ed Greenwood (and, of course, the Kenzer bods) on a very impressive product.

Dunx.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Rumorquest was a neat innovation, I admit. Kudos on that and the map to Kenzer, as I've said numerous times before.

However, a "safe" city does not an *interesting* city make, and if the place is so safe, why detail it all? It's not like anything will ever happen there...

Player #1: "We travel to Geanavue and rest up and resupply."

DM: "Okay, great! Nothing bad happens, and you are at full hit points, have whatever equipment you need and can now go adventuring somewhere outside the city!"

Player #2: "This town sucks. I could have had all kinds of fun if you had only listened to me and stopped in decadent Zoa."

 

[Derulbaskul]

(quote)
However, a "safe" city does not an *interesting* city make, and if the place is so safe, why detail it all? It's not like anything will ever happen there...
Player #1: "We travel to Geanavue and rest up and resupply."
DM: "Okay, great! Nothing bad happens, and you are at full hit points, have whatever equipment you need and can now go adventuring somewhere outside the city!"
Player #2: "This town sucks. I could have had all kinds of fun if you had only listened to me and stopped in decadent Zoa."
(unquote)

Seriously, the genius of this publication is what it details "below the surface".

Geanavue is like Singapore. Now everyone thinks that Singapore is this law-abiding utopia of peace and prosperity but they fail to realise that it's a major money-laudering centre for the ill-gotten gains of wealthy Indonesians and Burmese drug barons, not to mention THE major smuggling port for the Asia-Pacific region. Oh yes, but the streets are safe....

Geanavue can be just like this. Out in the open, all seems nice but a few chance encounters can introduce a party to the seamier side of Geanavue life. Sure, it's safe for a quick visit, perhaps even boring, but a few RumourQuest cards later... the party are really in the thick of some nefarious plots.

Personally, I think Kenzer made the right choice choosing the "safer" city as its first major city publication and I'm really looking forward to introducing a party to its delights.

Cheers
NPP

PS: Can I also cast a vote, as it were, for Ed Greenwood's other city publication, the City of Raven's Bluff. Now, the names in that were absolutely totally farcical (and evidence to me that the RPGA is not a worthwhile organisation... j/k!) but it's still a very well put together accessory. I think it's available for free download from the Wizards website.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

"Port of Raven's Bluff" was the worst D&D accessory I ever bought. Absolutely dreadful and 100% totally useless. That helped turn me off to the RPGA and any further Raven's Bluff products.

 

[Derulbaskul]

"Port of Raven's Bluff" was the worst D&D accessory I ever bought. Absolutely dreadful and 100% totally useless. That helped turn me off to the RPGA and any further Raven's Bluff products.

I agree but try City. After all, it's free so you've got nothing to lose. I just wish there were a way to change all the STUPID names through it, though. Then I might even use it one day.

Cheers
NPP

 

[Scarogoth]

Geanavue

Oh, come on. The city offers way more detail than that. There are all sorts of possibilities for intrigue, murders, monsters and the like if you look for them -- they're just not stalking the streets looking obvious. Hence, the Rumours. It's an aphorism, but I guess Geanavue can only be what you make of it.

I open the book at random:

pg. 31 "To this day, according the Geanavese lore, the "Treasures of Kuulovaas" remain hidden. They are almost certainly somewhere in or near the Castle. Other rumors insist that they may lie in a rockfall-sealed mountain cavern reachable only by mining in the right place…"

pg. 51 "Inevitably, there are still rumors of secret passages that run under the walls, from cellars in the city to places that were once cellars in outyards, and are now stone-slab doors only lightly covered with concealing earth. Tales persist of fugitives hiding for years in these forgotten passages, or mosters using them as lairs from which to prowl the city at night."

pg. 71 "Maraatii hungers after magic items as eagerly as her brother. She does not dare to disturb his traps to take or tinker with his enchantd things… various rogues, personal trade agents, and adventuring bands covertly and ceaselessly scour Tellene for magic items to bring back to her."

pg. 120 "According to persistent city legendd, a fortune in stolen gems remains concealed here. some tales say chests were sunk beneath the waters and covered over with rubble that fell in to deep fissures... other stories say wizards created portals in midair here that lead to 'otherwheres' in which the gems are hidden."

And I've not even reached Chapter 14, Adventures Arising!

Surely, there's something there for you, isn't there? A Rumour or two along the way, and there's a whole adventure waiting to be written. The detail is there so you don't get bogged down having to create all of that, but can concentrate on writing the "juicy bits", if you will.

Well, ultimately, we can agree to disagree, I guess, but for me Geanavue does just what it says it wants to. I'm quoting again: "Geanavue is a haven of justice and prosperity for your characters -- but one that, for the unwary, can be just as deadly as the monster-haunted hills... Geanavue is a city designed to be used either as a "home base" or simply as a stopover in a Kalamar campaign."

And the truth remains, it is just one city in a world of detail. The adventures are out there!

Amen.

Dunx.

 

[redroxannuk]

While I haven't made it through the whole book yet, I think the snapshot of the city as seen 'today' is of a time when things are pretty good. It hasn't always been that way for Geanavue, and (with DM > intervention) it won't be in the future. I have found that with Kalamar (of which I will admit to being a big fan) there is more 'between the lines' if you pay attention.

There are plenty of options for me to spicing things up without changing anything. The king is found dead, assassination is suspected. Now, that will be a catalycst for all kinds of mayhem if you want. Lots of ways you can go with it. The son comes to power and reveals his true nature of evil and excess, etc. When ruled by a king, it only takes a bad ruler to turn utopia into hell. But this is just ONE option I could take.

As for the public toilets, at first I too was a bit 'yeah, right' about that. But then the Romans had indoor plumbing, underfloor heating, etc. So, public toilets...well...ok. And who's to say some of them aren't guarded by those that can be bribed... >

And then there's the language. The names are in the Reanaarese language which I think is a nice touch. Yes, some might seem silly to us but then Herald or Rupert or Candy or Precious or Willie, on and on and on and on, may seem silly to foreign speaking people today (no disrespect to ANYONE ) I like the fact that different areas with different languages in Kalamar is reflected in place names, people's names, etc. Details, details, details. I've even taken up writing in Reanaarian script for my player handouts so it's more real (especially when none in the party can read Reanaarian, heheheheh).

I think it's just that you wanted a different kind of city, which is great! But to everyone else, please give it a good look before dismissing it as a city that can't be anything but 'goodie two shoes.'