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The main problem I have with Kenzer's Geanavue

Kaptain_Kantrip said:

Here's my thing on the languages: I agree that it would be unrealistic for so many different cultures to not have different languages in a meaningful way (GH and FR is guilty of this by insisting on a Common tongue that we don't even have in reality). My complaint is that you have not chosen a Latin base for your languages, making them much harder to get a handle on.

It is, of course, a matter of taste and you have a completely valid viewpoint, but for me, making all of the languages Latin or Germanic based would really detract from the setting. Part of what I like about Kalamar is the diversity of the people and the differences in culture. Making them all variants of the same language family would really go far towards destroying that for me.

This is another case where truth is stranger than fiction. Here are some real world places: Aotearoa, Kahoaalohakupa’a, Keolakupaianaha, Mana’olanakeiki, Kamaluhaiakapu, Eurauraga, Einu Ehoraie, Mahinaee, Tuu-ko-ihu, A'Arero, Maikelekelevesi, Nakaunicina, Teehuteatuaonoa, Taroatehoa. In addition to that there are languages that with whistles, clicks, and smacks added in, which you can't even spell out using our alphabet.

I like that Kalamar is a place with many different types of diverse people, rather than your typical 100% European fantasy setting, but I can understand why not everyone else does. That's fine but I wanted to share my viewpoint on the matter.
 

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Hey Kap'in,

I wanted to give my comments but I've found this thread too late and others (especially kenjib) have expressed just about all that I would have. Kenjib, you're as eloquent and informative with your responses as always :)

But I will give a comment on the pronunciation. For me, the hard to pronounce words add to the mystique of the world. I take the Arab lands that are so much in the news today as an example. So many foreign looking names and places have come to the front and it's rightly so because it's a foreign place to me. I'm happy that the lands of Kalamar do not feel like American fantasy. Instead, it feels like some new undiscovered area. The non-American sounding names keep the feeling of Tellene being otherworldly. That's exciting to me as a DM.

Kaptain_Kantrip said:

Example: Rasibuur Halaagah, Master of Loona

Pronunciation #1 (drawn out): RasiBUUR HaLAAgah
Pronunciation #2 (said twice): Rasibu'UR Hala'AGAH

A real world example would be the city of Bacoor in the Philippines. It looks like you would pronounce it BaKOOR, but it actually pronounced Bako'OR. See what I mean? Now try to get Joe Average to try and pronounce it just by looking at it... ACK!

This is not unusual in the real world. To keep it simple, I will use some common D&D words as examples:

Paladin:
I used to pronounce it "pa-la-din" instead of "pal-adin". Hey...I was 13 and it was the first time I'd ever seen the word ;)

Drow:
I used to pronounce it like cow instead of throw. I actually still prefer the cow sound :)

Oh, and did you know that the original pronunciation of knight is "ka-nig-it"? Talk about silly :)

So, because mispronunciation is common in the real world, I see it as a realistic aspect of the Kalamar world. And it makes me like it even more!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the languages and names of Tellene were actually created with the help of a linguist to essentially create realistic languages.

Just my $.02 :)
 
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Another comment on the languages that just occured to me.

As your characters adventure throughout the world of Tellene, they will encounter people, places and things from various lands and races. The different human languages actually allow the players to learn things about the NPCs and other objects.

Examples:

1) The DM tells you that you overhear a story about a man named D'Kar. Immediately, you know that the D'Kar is probably a Kalamaran (because the Kalamaran language uses apostrophes between double consonants).

2) The DM could show you a player aid of a scroll written in Reanaarese. Because of the many double or triple vowels and rarity of two consonants being side by side, you will know that it IS Reanaarese and can begin to search for someone who can read/speak it (assuming that none of the other PC's can).

The great thing about Kalamar is that, the more you play in the world, the more it FEELS like a real world, rather than an artificial place. The languages (and lands, races, etc) are part of this, and to remove or ignore one would decrease the overall enjoyment of the setting, in my opinion. Of course, it doesn't help you if you're converting a book to another setting, but that's not the intent. The intent is to make the world come alive.

Mark Plemmons
Kenzer and Company
www.kenzerco.com
 

50%=F

I'd say the material looked about half usable (which is still an "F" in my book). The detail is good, but generic. I have seen enough generic fantasy D20 stuff I don't even wanna start bitching--I could fill pages. By "generic", I mean "all the races and classes are represented" Tolkien rip-off fantasy. Anybody can (and apparently now does) crank this stuff out.
My other beef with KOK is the names and language. Fhokki? That's just stupid. There are examples too numerous to cite here--all seemingly random assemblages of syllables that just sound DOPEY. If you're gonna do odd fantasy-speak, do it well! Ceate a consistent language (like Tolkien's Elvish or M.A.R. Barker's languages for the world of Tekumel)!
Oh well, I never had terribly high expectations of a setting reminiscent of somewhere the knights of the dinner table would adventure--not to mention the world is named after an (albeit tasty) squid dish.
 

Yes, I think I am going to eat you now, mtbdm. You look like a tasty little bit.

*pauses*

On the other hand, rude people give me indigestion, as do trolls.

I'll pass.
 
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Greetings!

Well, I think Kalamar is cool. Kenjib, you are right on target my friend! If one was to take all the strange languages out of Kalamar, then it wouldn't really be Kalamar anymore. The idea that people want something super different, that isn't "representative" well, Talislanta is a cool world, and very different, but not terribly commercially successful. Thus indicating that the masses don't really want anything really *Different*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 


Greetings!

Hey Kap! I was alluding to the desire that Kalamar be different from the *representative* That, as I mentioned, while interesting, isn't commercially viable. Thus, I think that you should give Kalamar some slack, you know? They do want to stay in business, after all!:) I like *different* as well, but I've come to expect a certain format to all game-worlds, because I realise the marketing wall that they are up against. Thus, I look for what is different, from within the context of an expected framework.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
 

When anyone discusses Kalamar or Kalamar products, it always seems to me that there are two categories of gamers: ones who want ready-made conflicts and situations; and those who want a setting for conflicts and situations they create. The former will be disappointed, while the latter will usually be very pleased. Those who want hackfests ready to go 'out of the box' will wonder where the blood and gore is, those who just want a setting for their own encounters will be happy.

There are tons of things that could happen in Geanavue to suit any style of play but you, as DM, need to make them happen. They didn't create a guide to a conflict-in-progress. They created a highly detailed city. You can add conflict and there are certainly plenty of opportunities to do so.

Geanavue is peaceful and lawful (for the most part), but without even creating a conflict or disaster this makes it a very dangerous place for adventurers - the general population does not welcome them. I thought this was very clear. It's usually a safe city for the baker or the locksmith, the milkmaid or the serving wench. But who plays a milkmaid in D&D?

It states right from the beginning in the words of a local guardsman - "It's coming. Sooner or later we'll have a street battle, or half a street set ablaze, or pillage and butchery from one end of an inn to the other, and then the Lord's hand will come down and we'll hunt adventurers for a time. Mark my words: It's coming."

Then there are places like the Door of Dreams, a vast labyrinth of a place kind of like the Cantina from Star Wars mixed with the seediest D&D inn ever mixed with Moulin Rouge mixed with brothel and assassin's guild - right in the middle of the city. A former noble manor of twisting halls and secret passages where evil clerics hold secret meetings; headless ghosts roam the halls with messages, perhaps from the gods, nestled in the mouths of their decapitated heads; dark deals are made on a regular basis? It makes me wonder what the original poster is complaining about. I could make a long series of adventures just off this one oasis of lawlessness in a lawful city. This is a place where people go to lose themselves in decadence, but only the foolhardy go unarmed; where noble lords wear ornate masks to hide their identities while hiring mercenaries and hooded cloaks are rented by the night to those who want to keep a low profile. This is a place with harlots, dancers, acrobats, music and festivity. But this is a place where it states that there are rumors of magot-ridden bodies falling out of hiding onto unsuspecting guests. This is a place in the middle of this so-called 'boring' city.

I'm only part of the way through this supplement and although everything looks Smurf Village at first glance I'm constantly thinking "This could get ugly. Very ugly. Very quick."

Dark and evil faiths are trying to establish a presence in the city. It would make the perfect first strike for Kalamar expansion into the Bay area. Fire Giants roam the mountains and foothills. Undead lords hold dominion over neighboring cities. Sewers and secret passages lead everywhere, it seems at times. The current heir to the throne is not ready, even Lord Haar admits that, and there are wolves at the door waiting to take his place. The nearby shipping port is corrupt. Did I mention I've only gotten part way through the sourcebook? Where, exactly, is this lack of conflict - this 'blandness'? It seems like a great place to base a campaign to me.

I guess I'm at a loss to see where such a place is bland, unexciting or doesn't having anything of interest or challenge for adventurers.
 
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