The market dying?

[smcrey]

I hope you know that many books at RPGnow.com are now available in high quality print versions from our store.

James

thanks , i will definitely look into it

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

The FLGS provides an essential service: the ability to browse or 'read through' RPGs that you would not otherwise have encountered.

They also provide a location to consult with other people about products.

Don't sneer at the utility of FLGSs! Their disappearance will be a great loss to the community.

- the ability to browse or read is juast as well served by publisher's web-sites or Amazon.com's "browse the book" feature
- enworld is a fine location to consult with others about products

If FLGSs have utility, then they will be commercially successful enough to stay afloat. My guess is that as long as you have an internet connection their value add isn't enough to compensate for their increased cost and relatively low quality of service. Some exceptionally well-run stores will have no trouble surviving, but the majority of them will probably go under or serve a different hobby market.

 

[Akrasia]

That 'inability' is a myth spread by gamers who have gotten older and no longer have any real contact with younger gamers. ...

I have plenty of contact with younger gamers (at least at the University level, ages 18-22). There are indeed lots of young RPG players. But there are fewer than there were in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

The fact that there are fewer young RPG players today doesn not mean that there are still not substantial numbers of young RPG players. Punk music is less popular than it was in the late 1970s, but there are still plenty of punk fans in their teens and 20s.

Don't equate 'relative decline' with 'disappearance'.

 

[Turjan]

The inability to win young customers is one factor. The inability to keep older players buying new products is also a factor -- viz. an 'impact' on long-term viability. That was my point. And it is an impact worth noting if the average age of your market is getting older (which is true of RPGs). So I fail to see how you refuted my original claim (a poor analogy with the pop music industry isn't adequate -- the RPG market is simply too different).

*shrug*

Fact is that nearly all hobby markets see a constant stream of people coming into the hobby and others leaving the hobby again. There's absolutely nothing remarkable about this fact. When people grow up, get married and get children, that's what happens most of the time. It's only remarkable if there is an imbalance of both streams. As there is not much you can do about people leaving the hobby (it's mostly circumstantial), the important point is the other side, winning new people over.

So, maybe "refute" wasn't the adequate word. Perhaps, calling your statement a truism fits the situation better.

 

[Akrasia]

- the ability to browse or read is juast as well served by publisher's web-sites or Amazon.com's "browse the book" feature...

Rubbish. The 'browse the book' feature only lets you look at certain chapters of the book in question (usually only the first 1-2 chapters). You can't get a decent overall feel of the product that way (at least I can't, and I am sure others prefer to look at the entire book as well).

...
- enworld is a fine location to consult with others about products...

Enworld is a fine place, but probably less than 1 percent of RPG players frequent this place.

...
If FLGSs have utility, then they will be commercially successful enough to stay afloat...

Not necessarily. Social utility does not necessarily equal economic viability. Libraries have huge social utility, but generally could not be successfully run without public subsidies. If FLGSs die out, it will likely because people choose to buy from Amazon instead (after browsing at their FLGS, etc.). And once they are gone, they will have to buy based on the limited knowledge Amazon is willing to provide.

If the FLGS dies out, it will not be the end of the world. But please do not generalize about FLGSs based on you own, rather unfortunate and limited, experience.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

But there are fewer than there were in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

And you know this...how?

 

[Akrasia]

*shrug* ...

So, maybe "refute" wasn't the adequate word. Perhaps, calling your statement a truism fits the situation better.

My statement is not a 'truism', since it is not 'true by definition'. My statement is not true of all hobbies. Moreover, your reply was a generalization based on a bad analogy, and a claim about 'hobbies in general', as well as a misunderstanding of my original point (which, I confess, may not have been explained in the clearest manner possible).

There is indeed nothing remarkable about the fact that 'nearly all hobby markets see a constant stream of people coming into the hobby and others leaving the hobby again'. The interesting question is the extent to which different hobbies have different turnover rates (i.e. are capable of retaining existing players), are capable of 'growing' in terms of players, and so forth.

(And in any case, there are hobbies that are pretty successfull in encouraging existing participants to 'upgrade' on a regular basis -- e.g. CCGs, video games [or whatever they're called now -- that stuff involving the X-box, etc.], music CDs, mini wargames like GW Warhammer, etc.)

... It's only remarkable if there is an imbalance of both streams. As there is not much you can do about people leaving the hobby (it's mostly circumstantial), the important point is the other side, winning new people over...

The fact that people 'leave the hobby', or choose not to 'upgrade', is an impact on the market. Other hobbies do not see this same phenomenon. Some can retain existing players more successfully than RPGs, or, more importantly, are more successful in convincing existing players to buy new products. This problem is likely something intrinsic to the nature of RPGs (for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post), and is an 'impact' on the market.

As for your claim that 'the important point is the other side, winning people over ...', well, no kidding. Thanks for the revelation. However, my point was not about 'market strategy'. It had to do with a possible problem intrinsic to the RPG market.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

video games [or whatever they're called now -- that stuff involving the X-box, etc

Hah!

Akrasia's officially old.

 

[Akrasia]

And you know this...how?

I can only speak from experience. I've had knowledge of RPG club memberships at nine different universities from 1988-2004 (I've attended 4 of those universities; the data from the other five came from friends involved in other clubs). Overall membership numbers have declined since 1988, though with some spikes in particular years. (It would be incorrect for me to generalize on the basis of those numbers to all universities, obviously.)

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I can only speak from experience. I've had knowledge of RPG club memberships at nine different universities from 1988-2004 (I've attended 4 of those universities; the data from the other five came from friends involved in other clubs). Overall membership numbers have declined since 1988, though with some spikes in particular years. (It would be incorrect for me to generalize on the basis of those numbers to all universities, obviously.)

Intersting...I've noticed that(these days at least), D&D seems to be much, much more popular among Middle/High School age students. It was all over both High Schools I attended(both in different States, even), and many people around my age seem to have seen the same thing.

Maybe the 'young gamer' demographic is just younger than College Age and simply stops playing when they head off to a University and lose their groups?