D&D 4E The math behind power attack and why it needs to be redone in 4e

[jaer]

Thats nice to hear May I ask what the grats are in order for?

How about this:

Power Attack
Pre: Str 13+
Benefit: You may use power attack as a standard action. To use power attack, make a single melee attack against a foe. If you hit, power attack gains bonus damage equal to the amount your attack roll is greater than your foe's current armor class. This bonus damage cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. If you miss, your foe may make an attack of opporunity against you. You may only use power attack once per round.

As a DM who has players who power attack and as a player who power-attacks, that would suck. Characters would need the DM to help them calculare the math out at the beginning of every combat. I just want to roll a die and add numbers to that...PA is easy to do in combat.

Power Attack is mentioned as being a weak feat. Good. It's a 1st lvl feat, no pre-reqs other than strength (and if you don't have the str, you don't have the hit to use it), one that can still be useful at high levels of play (even your own chart showed it can be useful, even if you are just power attacking for 1 or 2). That to me makes it a good first level feat. It should not compare to Improve Crit, Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Focus or anything else that is not a first level feat.

I am currently running a 10th lvl fighter with a +20 attack bonus. I agree that things like Bull strength (I only have +1 enhancement bonus to Str) would help my damage more...but with any of these, someone else needs to provide them. They take up party resources to cast on me, both time in combat and a spell slot. Power Attack is something I control on my own, to boost my own damage, even if by a little bit. It's one of the few things I can do to do so since all my other damage mods are static.

There are many spells and abilities out there that help my hit rate. I very quickly get to the point that some of my base attack bonus is pretty much wasted, especially if I am charging (+2 to the attack, and no iterative attacks that I need to make sure they hit). Compare me charging (+22 BA) a CR 11 Earth Ele with AC 21. 2 points of BA is absolutely wasted! And that's before adding anything like bless and haste and a bull str into the equation (BA 26 on that charge now, vs 21 AC).

I could either be a 10th lvl fighter who took some other 1st level feat (which probably isn't doing anything for him), or be a 10th lvl fighter who can take that wasted BA and add it to his damage on this one attack. I don't expect anything more than that out a first level feat...something that is situationally useful, and potentially very useful against those creatures that have very low AC but either high hitpoints (oozes) or miss chances (incorporeal).

Saying that this feat can confuse new players, that I agree with. It sounds better than it is. But to say that it is a crappy first level feat, I don't agree.

I also like power attacking for the fun of it. I like charging in and "power attacking for it all!" without knowing what the AC of the creature is. Does it back fire? Sure! It's a gamble (as opposed to Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization). But sometimes it just makes the whole table cheer.

For usefulness, PA is a decent 1st level feat; for fun, it is the all-time winner.

 

[Tagnik]

See: Reckless Attack Feat from WoW RPG. Sacrifice AC up to BAB for +Damage.

Use that instead of power attack or make both the option for power attack. Can subract AC for damage and also to hit for even more damage!!

 

[Gort]

I always thought that feat was too powerful. Fighting something that doesn't attack your AC? Gain +40 damage a hit!

 

[xechnao]

Power Attack
Prequisites: +1 BAB and 2 ranks in Spot Skill, +1 Dex mod, +1 Str mod
Your enemy suffers -2AC penalty either to his natural, medium or heavy armor.
AC of dex mod, magic enchantments and light armor does not get affected. This feat can not be used with Sneak Attack of rogues.

Crushing Attack
Prequisites: Power Attack, +3BAB
You may opt that on a critical hit you confirm with a weapon you are proficient with, your enemy must make a Reflex save or get stunned for a number of rounds equal to the damage dice roll of your weapon. You do not roll double damage for this critical-you roll only once-and the enemy takes HP damage as any normal attack.

Demolishing Attack
Prequisites: Power Attack, Crushing Attack, +6 BAB, 4 ranks in Spot Skill
On a critical hit (no need to confirm-you always get this bonus on a critical) you ignore 15 points of damage resistance when you hit with a weapon you are proficient with. The -2AC penalty of enemies on their armor due to the power attack feat gets upgraded to -3. Again this feat can not be used with Sneak Attack of rogues.

 

[Najo]

Wow, looks like some thread necromancers are sneaking around the shadowfell of Enworld

People can debate all they want about whether or not power attack is broken or fine, whether it should be re-envisioned, etc. Put those skills to good use then and use them to win copies of the 4e PHB, DMG, and MM from our store in our FREE contest: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=214268


I will say this, already the entries we have prove Power Attack is grossly abusive and can be used in ways most players would never think to use it. The feat is broken and needs to be rebuilt beyond a shadow of a doubt. You'll see soon enough after we are done judging them in February. In the meantime, send us your contest entries.