The Mechanics of Pounce, Intent, and Realism

[airwalkrr]

This is based on discussion in another thread, but diverges from the topic on a basic level so I did not want to hijack it.

There are methods that allow a character to use the pounce ability, and I have occassionally seen pounce interpreted to mean the character gets a full attack action at the end of a charge. But I find this a bit dubious. Pounce is meant to allow a character to use each natural weapon at the end of a charge, not receive a full attack action.

Some abilities based on pounce (Lion's Charge for example) seem to be misnomers at best. Making four swings at the end of a charge is hardly analogous to a lion making one attack with each natural weapon at the same time at the end of a charge.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think Pounce is 'occasionally interpreted' to allow a full attack.

"Pounce (Ex): When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack."

It's pretty black and white.

The debate I've usually seen is whether the full attack replaces the single attack made as part of the charge, or - as the ability states - follows the charge (which incorporates a single attack.

My reading of Pounce, as written:
a/ Make a charge - take a full round action to move up to twice your speed directly towards an opponent, and make a single melee attack.
b/ Follow the charge with a full attack.

The text of Psionic Lion's Charge reads: "You gain the powerful charging ability of a lion. When you charge, you can make a full attack in the same round."

Again, I don't see how this can be read to say "You cannot make a full attack in the same round". Again, however, there's debate as to whether the full attack is instead of or as well as the attack that is made as part of a charge... and again, as written, I think 'as well as' is what the rules say.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Pounce is a problem in the ruleset IMHO. It first allowed monsters to get around the rules for full attacks and then lead powergamers to try and get a hold of the ability.

I replace the full attack with having the "pounce" treated as an Improved trip attempt. That's how a predator "pounces". It lunges at you, knocks you down and bites through something important.

It let's a predator's attack be a bit more dangerous to the overly defencive without making it super lethal to those who don't optimize AC.

 

[hong]

Pounce is incredibly powerful in the hands of a high-level PC, when full attacks are much more damaging than a single attack. Most silly how Savage Species had a 1st level spell that let anyone do a pounce.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Most silly how Savage Species had a 1st level spell that let anyone do a pounce.

No, no. Savage Species had a 1st level spell that let anyone pounce for 1 round/level, didn't it?

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

No, no. Savage Species had a 1st level spell that let anyone pounce for 1 round/level, didn't it?

-Hyp.

1 minute/level, actually. I changed it so that it discharged after the pounce, but it was still crazy good.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1 minute/level, actually.

Yeah, I just looked it up... I had a nagging feeling

-Hyp.

 

[airwalkrr]

Yowza! I had forgotten about that spell. I remember an epic level campaign where a character had that spell and used several higher level spell slots to quicken it.