D&D 5E The Misleading Scout - The Mislead Spell

[Mistwell]

Hey guys, I'd like some opinions on a specific use of this spell:

Mislead
5th level Cleric illusion spell, 1 Action cast (somatic component only). Range self.
Duration: hour (concentration.
Save: None

You become invisible at the same time that an illusory double of you appears where you are standing. The double lasts for the duration, but the invisibility ends if you attack or cast a spell.

You can use your action to:
move your illusory double up to twice your speed
make it gesture
speak
behave in whatever way you choose.

You can see through its eyes and hear through its ears as if you were located where it is.
On each of your turns as a bonus action, you can switch from using its senses to using your own, or back again.
While you are using its senses, you are blinded and deafened in regard to your own surroundings.

I broke out some of those details on their own lines in case anyone wants to quote a specific element of the spell easier.

So my question is about using this spell as a scout in a dungeon. I am not concerned about the invisibility for this purpose.

First question I have is can this illusion move through solid objects?

I believe the answer is yes, because (as bolded above) the illusion "appears where you are standing." It's obviously occupying your exact same space, as you go invisible yourself. That tells me it can move through solid objects. But I want the opinion of others on that.

Second question is how far away from me can it go, and can it leave my line of sight?

Nothing seems to be mentioned in the spell about a range or line of sight after casting, so I think it can go as far as you can move it during that one hour of concentration. But again I'd like others opinions on that.

Third question is can I use my darkvision when looking through its eyes?

I think I can as it's your eyes that are doing the seeing - it doesn't really exist. But again, open to differing thoughts on that.

I'm thinking this could be a very powerful scout. As a 5th level spell I am not sure that's particularly overpowered as there are other existing such scouts in the game which are lower level, like the Manifest Mind ability of a 6th level Order of Scribes Wizard, though that ability has a range of 300' (which is pretty far). Arcane Eye I believe does something similar.

If this can work as a scout, you could send it out, it can move through doors and walls, and you can use it to map the dungeon ahead of you. It would alert monsters that you're there of course. You could even use it to negotiate with a foe from a safe distance, since it can talk.

Anyone have experience with this spell or thoughts on using it as a scout or otherwise?

 

[Mort]

Hey guys, I'd like some opinions on a specific use of this spell:

Mislead
5th level Cleric illusion spell, 1 Action cast (somatic component only). Range self.
Duration: hour (concentration.
Save: None

You become invisible at the same time that an illusory double of you appears where you are standing. The double lasts for the duration, but the invisibility ends if you attack or cast a spell.

You can use your action to:
move your illusory double up to twice your speed
make it gesture
speak
behave in whatever way you choose.

You can see through its eyes and hear through its ears as if you were located where it is.
On each of your turns as a bonus action, you can switch from using its senses to using your own, or back again.
While you are using its senses, you are blinded and deafened in regard to your own surroundings.

I broke out some of those details on their own lines in case anyone wants to quote a specific element of the spell easier.

So my question is about using this spell as a scout in a dungeon. I am not concerned about the invisibility for this purpose.

First question I have is can this illusion move through solid objects?

I believe the answer is yes, because (as bolded above) the illusion "appears where you are standing." It's obviously occupying your exact same space, as you go invisible yourself. That tells me it can move through solid objects. But I want the opinion of others on that.

Second question is how far away from me can it go, and can it leave my line of sight?

Nothing seems to be mentioned in the spell about a range or line of sight after casting, so I think it can go as far as you can move it during that one hour of concentration. But again I'd like others opinions on that.

Third question is can I use my darkvision when looking through its eyes?

I think I can as it's your eyes that are doing the seeing - it doesn't really exist. But again, open to differing thoughts on that.

I'm thinking this could be a very powerful scout. As a 5th level spell I am not sure that's particularly overpowered as there are other existing such scouts in the game which are lower level, like the Manifest Mind ability of a 6th level Order of Scribes Wizard, though that ability has a range of 300' (which is pretty far). Arcane Eye I believe does something similar.

If this can work as a scout, you could send it out, it can move through doors and walls, and you can use it to map the dungeon ahead of you. It would alert monsters that you're there of course. You could even use it to negotiate with a foe from a safe distance, since it can talk.

Anyone have experience with this spell or thoughts on using it as a scout or otherwise?

Isn't it primarily an Arcane spell (wizards and bards)? Only twilight clerics have access to it. But that's not relevant to the questions so:

Haven't had anyone actually use this spell in my game so, no play experience, but here are my 2 cents.


First question I have is can this illusion move through solid objects?

I would think so, the created double is merely an illusion, and I would allow it in my game. That said, it's frustratingly NOT spelled out. I mean the School (Illusion), the Damage/Effect (Deception) and even the term illusory double vs. illusory duplicate is basically the same as simulacrum which is explicitly solid. That said, I think I would rule it's a non-solid illusion and therefore can go through objects etc.

Second question is how far away from me can it go, and can it leave my line of sight?

The range is self, which only applies at casting - as to where the double originates (so you couldn't have the double appear anywhere but where you are standing). After that, you can move it as long as you keep concentration. So yes, I think it can leave line of sight (unless I'm missing some rule about spells stopping when out of line of sight unless they expressly say so, don't think so though).

So yea, I think you're good moving it as far as you need - better find a safe space for yourself though!

Third question is can I use my darkvision when looking through its eyes?

Since 0 guidance is given as to what its eyes and ears are, I would default to they're your eyes and ears, except on it. So considering no other interpretation makes sense, yes I think Darkvision works.

If we're being sticklers though, something like enhanced smell or anything else beyond sight and sound does NOT work as it does not say it's senses, only it's "eyes and ears) - a failure of too much natural language (IMO).

Thoughts?

 

[Mad_Jack]

It's definitely going to vary by DM, but I'd tend to agree with that analysis, since the spell text clearly doesn't address those questions either way and I don't believe that there are any other rules contradicting it... And it's a 5th level spell, which should be providing you with some fairly solid benefits.
It also comes with the downside of your character being mostly deaf and blind for up to an hour - you only get one bonus action per turn, so if you pull your senses back to your own body at the end of your turn, then you have to wait til your next turn to use that turn's bonus action to start viewing through the illusion again. Which means that you're only able to switch back and forth every other round.
The illusion can't sneak, can't cast spells from its location, and more than likely isn't going to get very far away from you (even over the course of an hour) if you're in a situation where there's much of a chance of either you or it running into a situation where it's going to matter at all.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

First question I have is can this illusion move through solid objects?

RAI? Almost certainly not. Sure it comes out of you, but that's not really indicative of whether it's generally intended to pass through solid objects. Whilst there's no hard-and-fast test, in general spells that let you move through solid objects in any way tend to call that out as a specific thing they do. And I feel very confident in saying that because it doesn't and doesn't in any other way indicate that's intended, I'd say RAI is definitely against that. But RAW is 100% unclear. This is entirely up to the DM. Either way would be easy to justify.

Second question is how far away from me can it go, and can it leave my line of sight?

Generally spells that have limited ranges or LOS limit call them out, so I'd say the easy ruling here would be that neither applies and in fact it can travel for one hour. RAI? Hard to say. Maybe the spell shouldn't have been so vaguely written! But see below re: 2E and 3E versions of the same spell.

Third question is can I use my darkvision when looking through its eyes?

Unfortunately either way is easy to justify.

3E's version is here, with a tiny bit more detail:

3e SRD:Mislead - D&D Wiki

www.dandwiki.com

The 3E version is massively more limited - it has a very short range, and a much shorter duration. It's also a 6th-level spell for everyone but Bards (who were only half-casters in 3E).

Mislead

When a mislead spell is cast by the wizard, he actually creates an illusory double at the same time that he is cloaked by improved invisibility magic (see the 4th-level spell). The wizard is then free to go elsewhere while his double seemingly moves away. The spell enables the illusion of the...

adnd2e.fandom.com

The 2E version is even more limited in duration and range.

Basically, it looks like, for some unknowable reason, 5E's designers decided to massively buff the duration of Mislead. I suspect the lack of a range limit is just an oversight based on the 2E and 3E versions. Even if they increased the range by the same amount they increased the duration, you'd still expect a limit of like, a few thousand feet at most. Also the whole "touch component" thing is unclear if it's present in the 5E version.

Basically the 5E version seems like a very badly-written take on the 3E spell, so it is kind of hard to ascertain intentions. I can say based on the 2E/3E versions I'd just straight-up house-rule it with like a 500ft range limit, no ability to go through walls, a definite touch component, and just basic vision, because the whole "amazing scout" thing seems wildly unintended, and like it would be a crutch, even as a 5th-level spell, because there's no easy way to destroy the illusion.