The Most Underpowered Class?

[Ryujin]

warlocks are underpowered. But they make up for it by being the coolest class.

And yes, implement users are gimped. Where is my brutal rod? Where are my bracers of +2 damage to all my attacks? Where is my high-crit orb?

phb3?

 

[Spatula]

I would say that, for arcane strikers anyway, Arcane Power largely removed the weapon / implement disparity. Assuming you can swing the 13 Dex for dual implement spellcaster, anyway. The bonus damage from that should overtake the extra damage that weapon wielders get from superior weapons before you hit paragon (just hold onto your +2 implement when you get a +3 one). And that extra damage is multiplied by all the targets you're hitting, for classes that have multi-target spells.

 

[Diirk]

I would say that, for arcane strikers anyway, Arcane Power largely removed the weapon / implement disparity. Assuming you can swing the 13 Dex for dual implement spellcaster, anyway. The bonus damage from that should overtake the extra damage that weapon wielders get from superior weapons before you hit paragon (just hold onto your +2 implement when you get a +3 one). And that extra damage is multiplied by all the targets you're hitting, for classes that have multi-target spells.

You could say that but I suspect you'd be wrong. Dual Implement makes up for iron armbands of power, and thats pretty much it. Weapon users still have plenty of other ways to boost damage that arcane users don't have. Area effect powers help implement users with this a bit, but keep in mind... its not like weapon classes have no area powers. They actually have some scarily good ones.

 

[jester_gl]

Personally, I think warlord is among the weakest, at least at low level (never seen on high level so I cannot say). As a healer, they are the worst, even being surclassed by paladin in some case. As a damage dealer they are lackluster. The buff they gives are subpar to most other leader type buff.

I used a warlord as an NPC for a three player team, as his ability to give other players some spotlight time is usefull for an NPC. But players who tried warlord at my table were always lackluster and behind someone else in every possible way.

The worst was probably the ressourceful warlord because of a similar issue with the starlock, three required stats.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I would go warlock, or at least starlock - I tried playing one for 5 levels and it was hair-tearing frustration.

I had to watch my wife suffer with a Starlock for almost as long. She had a fantastic back story for her PC but the image of her just sucking in combat after combat prompted me to suggest she look at the Sorcerer - specifically Storm Sorcerer as this fit even better with her back story. We had an in game situation where she found an ancient staff of her order and it transformed her from a Warlock to a Sorcerer severing her ties to the Far Realm (still haven't seen any repercussions from that...yet). Much, much better class flavour-wise and mechanics wise too!

 

[WOLead]

Starlock. Needing 3 ability scores to keep up a good AC and attack rolls. Dropping Con leads to only 1 At-Will, a Basic Melee Attack or a Basic Ranged attack being all thats left. Dropping Charisma looses most Charisma based powers specifically tailored for Starlock, much less powers from the Star Pact Paragon Paths. Loosing Intelligence drops the various benefits tailored for Star Pact, as well as needing 13 Str for Chainmail prof or loose any decent AC. Even the At-Will given for Starlocks is counter-intuitive, being a vs. Fortitude power that is meant to prevent melees(Soldiers and Brutes mostly) to prevent getting closer but those having the highest Fort anyways.
The Starlock is a bundle of "Argh!", despite the fact I like its flavor.

 

[Skallgrim]

I think (and looking at responses, I think that this is backed up by others) that it isn't a case of an "Underpowered Class".

What you instead have are some classes with many viable builds (Fighter) and others with just a few viable builds and many subpar/ineffective/situational builds (Warlock). It is hard to build an ineffective fighter (without being deliberately dumb and taking a low primary stat and failing to boost it, etc), but many people have constructed characterful, plausible Warlocks only to discover that, particularly as you advance, they lag in power behind the rest of the party.

So, if we were to redefine "Underpowered" as "having the fewest choices for powerful builds", I think Warlock would be right up there at the top.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I think (and looking at responses, I think that this is backed up by others) that it isn't a case of an "Underpowered Class".

What you instead have are some classes with many viable builds (Fighter) and others with just a few viable builds and many subpar/ineffective/situational builds (Warlock). It is hard to build an ineffective fighter (without being deliberately dumb and taking a low primary stat and failing to boost it, etc), but many people have constructed characterful, plausible Warlocks only to discover that, particularly as you advance, they lag in power behind the rest of the party.

So, if we were to redefine "Underpowered" as "having the fewest choices for powerful builds", I think Warlock would be right up there at the top.

Excellent post. Have an xp.

 

[tiornys]

Personally, I think warlord is among the weakest, at least at low level (never seen on high level so I cannot say). As a healer, they are the worst, even being surclassed by paladin in some case. As a damage dealer they are lackluster. The buff they gives are subpar to most other leader type buff.

I used a warlord as an NPC for a three player team, as his ability to give other players some spotlight time is usefull for an NPC. But players who tried warlord at my table were always lackluster and behind someone else in every possible way.

The worst was probably the ressourceful warlord because of a similar issue with the starlock, three required stats.

Again, I'd say this is a build and/or player issue, not a class issue. Warlords, especially Tactical, are considered by many to be the best leaders, and I know from experience that my low level Warlord is consistently one of the most effective characters in LFR games.

Of course, the Warlords I've seen in play are generally granting buffs that are superior to those of other leaders (level 2 encounter level nova: get an ally to ready their attack on Adaptive Stratagem, use Warlord's Favor and grant that ally a +5 to attack, Adaptive Stratagem to give them +4 to damage, their readied action triggers at +5/+4, action point Commander's Strike to give them a free attack that is +5/+8, and if the target is still alive they have another turn to use the +5/+4--with a possible action point that pushes them to +7/+8, and I'll be able to Commander's Strike again on my turn for yet another attack at +5/+8) so my experience is clearly different than yours.

t~

 

[Diirk]

I think (and looking at responses, I think that this is backed up by others) that it isn't a case of an "Underpowered Class".

What you instead have are some classes with many viable builds (Fighter) and others with just a few viable builds and many subpar/ineffective/situational builds (Warlock). It is hard to build an ineffective fighter (without being deliberately dumb and taking a low primary stat and failing to boost it, etc), but many people have constructed characterful, plausible Warlocks only to discover that, particularly as you advance, they lag in power behind the rest of the party.

So, if we were to redefine "Underpowered" as "having the fewest choices for powerful builds", I think Warlock would be right up there at the top.

I mostly agree with this, but the staggering amount of truly bad powers they get is incredible. The at wills (if you can trigger the extra damage for star/infernal) are better than most of the encounters! They get some nice dailies, tho.

Centering a pact around the 2 most resisted damage types in the game and not giving them anything to help with that resistance is a bit odd, too.

You can make powerful warlock builds... but this mostly involves optimising a good at will and spamming that all day. So I like the class and it doesn't have to be weak, but even when a strong warlock has... issues.