lukelightning
First Post
Feats are a valuable resource. So are the ability score points for the prereq for DIS. So you end up spending a feat and investing in DEX and investing in a secondary magical implement.
The Most Underpowered Class?
- Thread starter BASHMAN
- Start date
Feats are a valuable resource. So are the ability score points for the prereq for DIS. So you end up spending a feat and investing in DEX and investing in a secondary magical implement.
Exactly. So weapon users sacrifice the arms slot.
Implement users sacrifice the off hand slot, at least 13 Dex, and a feat. And the bonus is still not as good, and more expensive. The bone thrown is that the off hand slot can also have another property on it, but there you have a cost/benefit thing going on. Is it better to just get the lowest possible enchantment, the +2 Magic Wand or whatever, or to spend more for a property? Weapon users slap on their bracers in the morning and don't have to think about it the rest of the day.
Jay
Implement users sacrifice the off hand slot, at least 13 Dex, and a feat. And the bonus is still not as good, and more expensive. The bone thrown is that the off hand slot can also have another property on it, but there you have a cost/benefit thing going on. Is it better to just get the lowest possible enchantment, the +2 Magic Wand or whatever, or to spend more for a property? Weapon users slap on their bracers in the morning and don't have to think about it the rest of the day.
Jay
OK, that outlook is so strikingly wrong that it's sufficient to take me off the warlock tangent, at least for a minute, so I can pontificate about one of my other pet paradigms.
The notion that healing is the most important asset a leader has is a very newbish kind of misconception. Healing is something every leader should have in moderation, but no leader should have in excess. The creed that "if a little is good, a lot is even beter" does not apply here, because all healing does is put you back on the starting line. It doesn't move you an inch farther forward to the finish line, therefore you only need healing in proportion to the amount of damage received. And if your party is consistently taking extreme amounts of damage in battle, you have a problem that is not going to be fixed simply by tossing extreme amounts of healing at it.
When my group started playing 4e, nobody touched the warlord. Everyone played clerics. And I constantly heard griping about how long combats took. 4e was blamed for the extreme grindyness. But the real problem was that our leaders thought that whenever a good healing power was available, that was the hands-down choice for them to take. Oh how wonderful it was that we could just keep taking punishment forever, bloodied and beaten one second and then back to full the next. All praise the cleric, master of healing. But the problem was, we couldn't crush our enemies through superior offense, so we whittled them away through the long slog of gradual attrition. It was rope-a-dope.
Finally, I got a chance to play a leader and I embraced it. I rolled up a bard, not a warlord, but the principal was the same: first and foremost, give out offensive buffs--bonus attacks, attack roll bonuses/rerolls, and damage roll bonuses/rerolls--to make sure attacks hit and do lots of damage. The secondary priority is to give out defensive buffs like AC bonuses and temp HP that are, essentially, pre-emptive healing. For healing of the purely reactive variety, majestic word is all they get during the battle. They can burn surges with the benefit of my restful song after the fight's over.
I don't think the gang could be more happy. Even the DM prefers this approach to leaders. Nobody likes a slog.
When we get those threads abuot the grind of 4e combat, most folks start analyzing the party makeup and fingering the striker as the make-it-or-break it role. Personally, I think a good leader turns everyone into a bit of a striker.
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Felon has been 100% right on everything so far, most especially that anyone who claims a warlock's damage deficiency is made up for by his control elements has clearly never played one.
Cursebite and cursegrind seem like great powers until you realize that they deal necrotic damage and target fortitude. And sure their powers have some nice riders, but so does every other class in the game.
The problem with warlocks is that they have the worst of both worlds. Weapon classes have great damage bonuses (superior weapons, iron armbands, etc.) Spellcasters, on the other hand, make up for that loss by having far more area and close attacks. Warlocks have neither. They are a spellcaster class without the whole benefit that other spellcasters have. That is why they are the most underpowered.
Cursebite and cursegrind seem like great powers until you realize that they deal necrotic damage and target fortitude. And sure their powers have some nice riders, but so does every other class in the game.
The problem with warlocks is that they have the worst of both worlds. Weapon classes have great damage bonuses (superior weapons, iron armbands, etc.) Spellcasters, on the other hand, make up for that loss by having far more area and close attacks. Warlocks have neither. They are a spellcaster class without the whole benefit that other spellcasters have. That is why they are the most underpowered.
Ryujin
Legend
Yes, Cursebite and Cursegrind are nice but, as you say, they target FORT. I capped off both on a dozen opponents in our last session and hit 3 with the first, then 4 with the second. The oppositions' FORT scores were higher than their ACs, but obviously my CHA based attacks weren't equal to a weapon strike.
And that's my best combo.
And that's my best combo.
You know, I am bewildered at how infrequently I hear people say that.
True. In general, they just don't have enough going for them.
Personally, I would like to see summoning added to their portfolio. That would compliment their almost total focus on ranged striking.
Yeah, summoning would be a great new angle, and makes a lot of sense since they, you know, actually trafic with otherwordly powers. Unfortunately the "D&D has become WoW!" crowd might be keeping the summoning warlock from seeing the light of day.
I just hope that after tommorow's warlock article this thread becomes outdated. Of course I thought I would be saying that about Arcane Power and we got almost nothing, so I am prepared for disapointment.
I just hope that after tommorow's warlock article this thread becomes outdated. Of course I thought I would be saying that about Arcane Power and we got almost nothing, so I am prepared for disapointment.
My group doesn't use Dragon Mag content, so I'll still be bearing the torch at least until PHB3.
