The Myth of the Necessity of Magic Items

[Malhost Zormaeril]

I think I prefer magic items over gross generalizations and emotionally loaded arguments.

...okay, got that off my chest. For me, magic items simply make the game more fun. The behavior you describe is not something I've seen.

Yeah, I <3 Apparatus of Kwalish, Iron Bands of Bilarro, Horn of Blasting, Flying Carpet, Ring of Shooting Stars, Rod of Lordly Might... Sword +5? I like it, but not so much. And Stat-boosters, while strong, just don't have the same charm.

I guess I'm probably in the minority, though, liking the quirky magical junk best. But it wouldn't be D&D without it, all the same.

 

[Deekin]

It's just at a higher level. Lemme think. 1, 5, 1, 5, 1, 5, 1, 3 = 9th level spells. Character level would be 22 (4 levels in non-spellcaster such as expert(UA), rogue, or whatever).

Since AoW ends at about 18th, I think they will have 8th level spells. That's only one spell level down. Believe me, it's still enough to make players have to think twice

jh

Age of Worms ends at 21st with every party member wielding several artifacts against a deity who can cast both 10th level sorcerer spells and cleric spells spontaneously , can drop DC 36 Wail of the banshee at will, and who's stat block takes up 3 pages.

Without being up to your eyeballs in magic, you are so screwed.

 

[icedrake]

I retract what I have said partly due to a confusion of low vs no magic and partly because of a personal history of a poorly ran campaign in "low" magic game a few years ago. It was a personality conflict with the DM and a game I should have quit long before I even agreed to play in it.

You are actually in fact changing the monsters. DR to hp, fine change given a lack of magic weapons in a party, but still a change non-the-else. I would do the same thing in that stitatuion.

Only 4 of the base classes in the PHB actually don't cast any magic. Four have access to spell lists ranging from 0-9, two have access to divine spells 1-4 and another ony has access to 0-6. Though not often thought of as a significant contribution to the class, there are some pretty neat ranger and paladins spells if you open up access to the spell compendium. Hunter's Eye's great as is arrow storm. The fact they have a spell list lets them use wands, which is what I normally remember when taking ranger or paladin levels verses actually worrying about my one or two spell slots.

Depending on the avaiability of wands, in a low magic game, clerics and druids have the ability to dominate the game just from the PHB alone. Once high enough, everyone gets access to a casting of greater magic weapon and magic vestiment. Though the cleric lacks some healing spells for the day due to the buffs, each melee combatant should be hit less and doing more damage with them. The AC and damage boost should compensate a bit for the lack of healing except in some harder fights. A druid doesn't even need any weapons or armor past level 5. Do you force these classes to take one level of a martial class?

What sources are you allowing your players to draw from?

 

[green slime]

Age of Worms ends at 21st with every party member wielding several artifacts against a deity who can cast both 10th level sorcerer spells and cleric spells spontaneously , can drop DC 36 Wail of the banshee at will, and who's stat block takes up 3 pages.

Without being up to your eyeballs in magic, you are so screwed.

There is no spoon.

 

[Emirikol]

Age of Worms ends at 21st with every party member wielding several artifacts against a deity who can cast both 10th level sorcerer spells and cleric spells spontaneously , can drop DC 36 Wail of the banshee at will, and who's stat block takes up 3 pages.
Without being up to your eyeballs in magic, you are so screwed.

This is a good for-example of magic item escalation..albeit a fun one

As for how to handle this situation, it will typically come down to common sense balancing it out.

jh

 

[Ulrick]

I ran a campaign with very low magic levels. The few magic items that the PCs found were almost always unique and had a specific purpose. Scrolls, potions were uncommon, wands were rare. My explanation for this was spellcasters asking themselves "Why would I expend so much effort just to create a +1 sword?"
Effort = Time + XP.

Spellcasters could, of course, still cast spells normally but had to be subtle lest the locals try to burn them at the stake.

This worked fine at character levels 1-9. But I started running into problems at higher levels when trying to find monsters that didn't have DR and too high AC.

Also, when lowering the magic items in the game one can't use the DMG treasure tables. So it did require some work.

 

[green slime]

This worked fine at character levels 1-9. But I started running into problems at higher levels when trying to find monsters that didn't have DR and too high AC.

Really? I would have thought that it was easy to chuck classed NPCs at them, and modify a monster or two.

 

[RichGreen]

Richard:

Rather than overworking yourself studying monsters, just use my standing rule: remove any DR/magic and tack on 50 hit points (per plus). It allows the combats to be much more fun and also eases up any conversion difficulty.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm not exactly overworking myself! I don't think adding 50 hp helps with Skull & Bones. The characters don't really deal that much damage each round: cutlasses only do 1d6. It'll just lead to a longer and not necessarily more interesting fight.

Cheers


Richard

 

[JohnSnow]

Age of Worms ends at 21st with every party member wielding several artifacts against a deity who can cast both 10th level sorcerer spells and cleric spells spontaneously , can drop DC 36 Wail of the banshee at will, and who's stat block takes up 3 pages.
Without being up to your eyeballs in magic, you are so screwed.

You know, there's a sick part of me that wants to turn a party of 20th-level Iron Heroes characters loose on this guy with the weapons they borrowed from the city guard and see how they do.

 

[RichGreen]

Yeah, I <3 Apparatus of Kwalish, Iron Bands of Bilarro, Horn of Blasting, Flying Carpet, Ring of Shooting Stars, Rod of Lordly Might... Sword +5? I like it, but not so much. And Stat-boosters, while strong, just don't have the same charm.

I guess I'm probably in the minority, though, liking the quirky magical junk best. But it wouldn't be D&D without it, all the same.

You're right, though. That stuff is much more fun. The trouble is my players sell all the interesting, quirky stuff to buy a better ring of protection/cloak of resistance/belt of giant strength etc.

Cheers


Richard