The nature of Celestia's layers

[NexH]

There seem to be 2 types of layered planes:
Those in which the layer is merely a geographical area, like Pandemonium or Ysgard. In these planes you can simply walk into another layer (or fall into it in the case of Ysgard)

And those in which access to different layers occurs at specific points, like the Abyss.

My question is: at which category pertains Celestia?

The MotP talks about Celestia as a single mountain, and implies that merely going up takes you to upper layers. But it also says that to access to the next layer you have to find the portal in the highest physical point of the current one (and there is a specific example with the portal to Chronias on page 136). There is also the weird fact that you can hear the waves of the Silver Sea on layers above Lunia, which woulnd't make much sense if the plane was layered like the Abyss.

So, could anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[Southern Oracle]

Both, actually. And in Planescape, you had the additional requirement of pursuing a particular path of self-enlightenment (goodness), or you'd never have the chance of finding the portal to the next layer.

The way I envision it, all the layers of Mount Celestia overlap and exist simultaneously in the same space, just out of phase with each other. As you pass from one layer to another, you're still on the same mountain, just "in phase" with a particular layer, so you see its characteristics. This goes along with the behavior of Bahamut's realm, which can manifest on any of the layers as the Platinum Dragon desires.

 

[NexH]

Both, actually. And in Planescape, you had the additional requirement of pursuing a particular path of self-enlightenment (goodness), or you'd never have the chance of finding the portal to the next layer.

The MotP talks about this requirement, only that it mentions there are non-spiritual shortcuts.
Did the Planescape material actually say which where the specifics for finding each portal?

The way I envision it, all the layers of Mount Celestia overlap and exist simultaneously in the same space, just out of phase with each other. As you pass from one layer to another, you're still on the same mountain, just "in phase" with a particular layer, so you see its characteristics. This goes along with the behavior of Bahamut's realm, which can manifest on any of the layers as the Platinum Dragon desires.

Interesting, that would explain the sounds of the Silver Sea in a certain way.
But, what happens when you access a layer throught a portal on the lower one, and you move to the "outside" of Celestia (i.e. to the Silver Sea). ¿Do you suddenly find yourself again on Lunia?

 

[Shemeska]

Drat already answered.

I always see it as both a single mountain, and 7 individual layers, each a mountain unto themselves, with each layer going progressively higher and more glorious as you make your way 'up' towards the next layer. A sevenfold mountain, the layers being in the same place more or less, only seperated by a sort of metaphysical phase from one another like Chris mentioned.

 

[TDRandall]

So it's kind of like embedded cones (think inverted ice cream sugar cone, covered by a waffle cone, covered by a traffic cone, covered by a huge dunce cap, etc. with some type of filaments connecting each to the other), but when on each layer the others (at least the bigger, "better" ones) and everything on it and/or connecting them together (until you find the passage to the next level) are invisible and intangible?

Freaky.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh, layers.

For some reason, I thought this thread was about Celestia's lawyers!

-Hyp.

 

[davidschwartznz]

Oh, layers.

For some reason, I thought this thread was about Celestia's lawyers!

Like lawyers could get into the plane of lawful good?!

 

[Shemeska]

Like lawyers could get into the plane of lawful good?!

Vote Sneddon for mayor of Grenpoli

 

[Southern Oracle]

The MotP talks about this requirement, only that it mentions there are non-spiritual shortcuts.
Did the Planescape material actually say which where the specifics for finding each portal?

No, it didn't. In The Great Modron March, the heroes are guided by a lantern archon, so they don't have to worry about following a path themselves, and I believe a couple other adventures use the same device to get the characters to a certain layer. If the characters decide to go to a layer on their own, then it's up to the DM.

Incidentally, the portal from Solania to Mertion can only be opened by answering a riddle posed by Jazirian, the god of couatls.

Interesting, that would explain the sounds of the Silver Sea in a certain way.
But, what happens when you access a layer throught a portal on the lower one, and you move to the "outside" of Celestia (i.e. to the Silver Sea). ¿Do you suddenly find yourself again on Lunia?

I would say yes.

 

[cmanos]

I see it as one mountain....not the nested cone idea. One mountain and as you progress up the mountain there will be waypoints where the plane's denizens will challenge you, probably in some moral, ethical or spiritual way. Onbly when you pass their test can you progress through to a higher plane of being. While the waypoint is not on the top of a mountain, one cannot progress higher on Celestia until one overcomes the challenge presented. I also do think that one will need some kind of spiritual enlightenment path to progress up to higher levels. Yes you may not need it for say the dfirst 2-3 layers, but higher than that, you will need to prove your devotion to a specific path to progress through their waypoint.