The Nature of Change (or, Understanding Edition Wars)

[Pseudopsyche]

BTW, if the second assumption above is false, then WotC did throw me off the train. There are possible explanations for that, too -- such as believing that enough new customers would make up the revenue provided by one completist like me -- but it's still me being thrown off the train, not disembarking voluntarily.

I would say that WotC changed the route on you. Mearls designed a route that he thought would serve more people better. Scott's job is to show existing passengers how the new route can still get them where they want to go, along with promoting the route to new passengers. Of course, depending on where you live, the new route may simply not work for you. It sucks, but it doesn't mean that it was personal.

Ideally, those who are no longer served by the train will find alternative transportation. (You might even say they'll find a different path.) The alternative provider may not have the same cachet, but it will get people where they need to go.

That said, if there were a discussion board dedicated to transportation options in the region (which may traditionally have focussed on this one railroad company), I'm sure there would be some heated discussions about the route changes. I also think that the OP's points about the nature of change would apply.

 

[billd91]

BTW, you're right. I shouldn't have said "kill" in reference to the OGL. It cannot be killed, but it can be -- and it has been -- weakened by its abandonment by WotC, and I think that weakening is another possibility for the design to X+1. (And I'm not talking about the actual license, but the player- and designer-base that uses it.)

The way I see it, WotC had abandoned the promise of the OGL fairly early by not expanding the SRD after psionics and Unearthed Arcana. I understand the desire to protect their IP, but as the Complete books and PH2 start to become more scarce, finding some of the really useful feats that go a long way to helping the fighter and multiclass casters balance out will be much harder.

 

[Imaro]

Your first point is over-simplified and incorrect. It assumes that three years ago numbers didn't really "count". Even going with your assumption: People working on old and new projects are expected to produce for BOTH. Stop producing for the old and you're on the street before the new. In business, it's really that straight forward.

No, you over simplified my statement to better counter it. I didn't say numbers don't matter, but in the end resources and money are allocated by priority, that my friend is "business". I never said 3.5 was shut down as far as production...but really, Who here is going to argue Elder Evils was something everybody was pinning for... I would argue this was more niche than even my suggestion, yet it was driven by an imperative to have people wrap up and end their 3.5 campaigns. Same with the Rules Compendium (great a resource as it was) as far as the design principle of ending 3.5... Oh and we also finally got a Greyhawk adventure, even though WotC neglected the setting throughout the run of 3.5 because it supposedly wouldn't sell.

Also, you defeated your own argument. The core books were all done. And even the closer-to-core books would feature settings and more general classes like fighter/mage/rogue/wizard not certain prestige classes.

Uhm...huh? What are you talking about here. 3e or 4e...I don't get what you are arguing here or even what you're thought is at all with this paragraph.

3E was also an absolute mess from the "core book" standpoint. They tried shoving "core" material in to everything. The DMG had PC prestige classes and info in it. The PH had magic items. It was a hodge-podge to get people to buy more books. And it sort of worked for a time but in the end it was just kind of a mess. 4E is much more streamlined and concise so far.

Uhm...the 4e PHB had magic items in it not the 3e one... and numerous 4e books (Manual of the PLanes, Draconomicon, Martial Power) have paragon paths in them, not to mention rituals are scattered all over the place as well... Less books maybe, but even that will fade with time...but I don't know about it being more concise. you know what I can't discuss what I don't understand and somewhere in this post your point has been totally lost on me.

 

[Umbran]

If it looks like a turtle and walks like a turtle...

If everyone agreed that it looks like a turtle... but they don't.

 

[Shemeska]

Absolutely true. Later 3.5 books were as high quality as any of the earlier stuff. I think some of the more interesting products came from the last couple years of 3E.

And I have to agree for the most part. There were some absolute gems like Fiendish Codex I, Lords of Madness, Serpent Kingdoms, Tome of Magic, etc. Some of the best books of the entire edition.

But at the same time it was also a mixed bag. For books like the Planar Handbook and Races of X, I thought they were kinda mailing it in. But a matter of taste perhaps.

In many ways some of those late 3.5 books (especially the ones largely done by freelancers) mirror some of the crazy level of creativity that I see in some of the very late 2e books (Faces of Evil, etc).

 

[Brown Jenkin]

If everyone agreed that it looks like a turtle... but they don't.

But enough do.

So is it a turtle or a cat?

[sblock]

[/sblock]

 

[Spatula]

So what do we do with all of the people who thought that 3e was the turtle?

I wonder how much of the bitterness is driven by there being an existing community here on EN World. After the initial 3e flame wars in the early days of EN, the 3e-turtle types (presumably) went off to Dragonsfoot or rpg.net or somewhere else that wasn't ~90% 3e embracers. There were still some edition wars, and there was consistant interest in throwback games like Hackmaster, OSRIC, C&C, etc. by people who grew disenchanted with 3e. But it never seemed to get that rude.

But now the edition change has come upon an already intact community, instead of a fledging one, and there's no obvious home for one side or the other to leave for. Nor is it obvious that anyone should leave. But the extremes on both ends think they're the ones that belong and resent the presence of the other.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

So what do we do with all of the people who thought that 3e was the turtle?

You sell them 4e, which presumably was the plan all along.

If you want to sell cats, sell cats; and if you want to sell turtles, sell turtles. But if your turtle business plan revolves around convincing cat lovers that your turtle is a cat, you screwed the pooch.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

It's not change I'm resistant to. If I'm driving a ferrari, and suddenly you replace it with a tricycle, I'm not resistant to the change, I'm resistant to the fact that I can't actually, you know DRIVE anymore. I WANTED to like 4e, but the more I heard about it, the more certain I was that it wasn't D&D as I have known it. Change is only good if it's an improvement.

 

[Spatula]

You sell them 4e, which presumably was the plan all along.

If you didn't think that 3e was D&D, then 4e probably doesn't look much better.