The new point-buy?

[Kaodi]

What if uneven raising a stat to an uneven number cost 1 point and raising it to an even number cost 2, except for stats being raised to 10? That would give us...

16 10 9
14 10 6
13 10 4
12 10 3
11 10 1
10 08 2

9 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 25

 

[Oldtimer]

Link?

That info was from Thalmin who was able to look in the PHB on friday night. http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4226504&postcount=129

 

[cdrcjsn]

That info was from Thalmin who was able to look in the PHB on friday night. http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4226504&postcount=129

Thalmin had like 10 minutes to look up dozens upon dozens of facts scattered around the three books that people wanted him to look up. He wasn't allowed to take pictures and basically had to commit the info to memory.

It isn't unreasonable to assume that he made a few mistakes. Given that his stated info can't be reconciled with various stat buys that worked in the past, it seems likely.

I'm sure if you ask him if he's willing to bet his life that this particular info he gave is 100% correct, he wouldn't take up that offer.

 

[Oldtimer]

Thalmin had like 10 minutes to look up dozens upon dozens of facts scattered around the three books that people wanted him to look up. He wasn't allowed to take pictures and basically had to commit the info to memory.

It isn't unreasonable to assume that he made a few mistakes. Given that his stated info can't be reconciled with various stat buys that worked in the past, it seems likely.

I'm sure if you ask him if he's willing to bet his life that this particular info he gave is 100% correct, he wouldn't take up that offer.

No one is expecting anyone to bet their life on anything, but I'd rather believe a guy who has looked into the PHB than someone who's just guessing based on 3e point-buy.

I don't really see why the 4e point-buy needs to be reconciled with the 3e point-buy. It's not like a lot of the other rules are easy to reconcile between the editions.

So while a mistake is possible, I don't see why it seems likely.

 

[keterys]

Umm charisma is nothing to do with your intelligence (and there fore ability to converse).

If you think a 4 in Charisma:
'a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.'
means that you can just roleplay 'annoying' and not impact your ability to converse, then you're just bypassing a true weakness.

My wife was recently sick and when she got better, my friend's mentally disabled daughter asked her if she was better and hugged her... and we all looked on stunned, because this girl _doesn't do that_. She doesn't have the force of personality to look people in the eye or talk to strangers.

And I'd rate her higher than a 4, frankly.

The difference between a 7 and 8 wisdom is hard to equate, but I'd suspect that if we were talking about Intelligence we'd be talking about the difference between someone who can be educated and fit into society and someone who has a sufficient developmental disability as to render them handicapped.

So, given 'willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings.', probably someone who is gullible, inattentive, and easily distracted. The kind of character who wouldn't realize someone was in trouble or lying, almost at all.

Of course, the truth of the matter is that the game mechanics don't really penalize you for statistics that would be considered crippling in real life and the math rewards the person with the +5 competence bonus to a skill more than the person with 6 more points of stat. While I've used charisma and wisdom as dump stats many a time, and it's fun to roleplay someone who is overconfident and impulsive, I wouldn't reward someone with points for reducing the points below 8.

It's only proving they don't care about the mechanical disadvantage, so there's no reason to reward with mechanical advantage.

 

[Burr]

What if uneven raising a stat to an uneven number cost 1 point and raising it to an even number cost 2, except for stats being raised to 10? That would give us...

16 10 9
14 10 6
13 10 4
12 10 3
11 10 1
10 08 2

9 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 25

I like this a lot. It's intuitive. It makes 18 expensive, but not ridiculously so. And it leaves open many, many stat options from hardcore (18, 18, 11, 10, 10, 8) to mixed (the pregen array or something more like 18, 15, 12, 12, 10, 8) to boringly well-rounded (14, 13, 13, 13, 13, 12).

Plus, it seems like it might balance the most extreme three arrays fairly well versus each other (the odd one getting the upper hand after the first stat bonus, then worsening after the next, etc.):

18, 18, 11, 10, 10, 8
17, 17, 13, 11, 10, 8
18, 16, 13, 10, 10, 8

 

[Oldtimer]

What if uneven raising a stat to an uneven number cost 1 point and raising it to an even number cost 2, except for stats being raised to 10? That would give us...

16 10 9
14 10 6
13 10 4
12 10 3
11 10 1
10 08 2

9 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 25

Unfortunately none of the pre-gens from DDXP work out according to this. Skamos, especially, ends up at only 18 points.

 

[Cadfan]

I wouldn't assume that everything we've seen so far is built according to completely compatible systems. I also wouldn't assume that the arrays used for KotS will add up to exactly the amount of the default point buy.

 

[That One Guy]

I like this a lot. It's intuitive...

I too like it. I went and crunched the dragonborn pally and dwarf fighter from KotS (not that I think they're perfect, but whatever). Assuming the dwarf gets +2 con and wis, and the dborn gets +2 Str and Cha, I took those out first. assuming their lowest stats started at 8, they're both 26 point builds. Maybe to get to 10 only costs 1 instead of 2?*Which is what the OP suggested and I missed...* If so, they'd both be at a 25 point buy. I haven't tried to crunch the DDXPers, though, or any other KotS... and I wouldn't place my life on my math skills, but I did use a calculator to double-check myself.

Edit:... the math holds for two more assuming *25* pt.
[sblock]
Half-elf cleric...

Assuming +2 to Cha and Con
Assuming Int gets the 8

13 c 4
12 c 3
11 c 1
*10 c 2*
16 c 9
14 c 6

*cost = 25*

Halfling Rogue

Assuming +2 to Dex and Cha
Assuming Wis gets the 8

12 c 3
13 c 4
16 c 9
11 c 1
*10 c 2*
14 c 6

*cost = 25*[/sblock]

Edit #2 DDXP seems to breakdown...[sblock]These guys and gals are all over the place. Anyone wanna' double check the math here?

DDXP Halfling Paladin

Assuming +2 to Dex and Cha
Assuming Int gets the 8

14 c 6
12 c 3
10 c 0
9 c 1
16 c 9
14 c 6

cost = 25?

DDXP Human Cleric

Assuming +2 to Wis
Assuming Dex gets the 8

14 c 6
12 c 3
*10 c 2*
12 c 3
16 c 9
12 c 3

*cost = 26*

DDXP Dwarf Fighter

Assuming +2 Con and Wis
Charisma gets the 8

16 c 9
16 c 9
12 c 3
10 c 0
14 c 6
8 c 0

cost = 27?

DDXP Eladrin Ranger

Assuming +2 Dex and Int
Charisma gets the 8

14 c 6
11 c 1
16 c 9
10 c 0
14 c 6
10 c 2

*cost = 24*

DDXP Tiefling Wizard

Assuming +2 Int and Cha
Wisdom gets the 8

10 c 0
10 c 0
14 c 6
18 c 12
9 c 1
12 c 3

cost = 22? Soo... maybe it takes an extra 1 or 2 to hit 18?

DDXP Half-elf Warlock

Assuming +2 Con and Cha
Wisdom gets the 8

10 c 0
14 c 6
11 c 1
15 c 7
8 c 0
16 c 9

cost = 23?[/sblock]

** Fixed things.

 

[Burr]

Here are some point-buys that might work.

I focused on possibilities that mostly accelerate in cost.

I assumed it would be 25 points, except for exactly 2 DDXP characters with extra points each. (In all cases, the Dwarf Fighter was one of them, with 3 extra points.)

I assumed that the costs would be cumulative.

I assumed that the KotS array can be generated through the point-buy system.

Finally, I assumed these racial bonuses for the DDXP characters:

Dwarf Fighter: +2 Con, +2 Wis
Halfing Paladin: +2 Dex, +2 Cha
Human Cleric: +2 Wis (from floating bonus)
Eladrin Ranger with +2 Dex, +2 Int
Tiefling Wizard with +2 Int, +2 Cha
Half-Elf Warlock with +2 Cha, +2 Con

(I saved the Excel file, so if any of the above is wrong, tell me and I can go back and try again.)

8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +3 +4 +3 +4
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +3 +5
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +3 +6
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +4 +6
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +6 +6
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +4 +7
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +5 +7
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +6 +7
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +4 +8
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +5 +8
0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +5 +6 +8

Considering all the assumptions I had to make, and the large number of results nonetheless, I gotta conclude it's still too early to guess how the point-buy will be structured.