The New Red-Box...

[Imaro]

Said set only ran to Level 3 (I think the Big Black Box from 1991 is the only Basic Set that got up to Level 5), and the new Basic Set will have at least twice as many options for character types as the old. I'd like to see it go higher, but I'm not sure I'd call it a 'deal-breaker' just yet.

I love how you compare the two by saying the red box only ran to level 3... when the new one doesn't even match this (which was actually my point). I mean honest;y...WotC has tried these mini-game (as in very little replay value) starter boxed sets (in 3.0 up to 4.0) and they don't seem to do very well. As far as the options go... if I can only play up to level 2... it's really not that great an incentive to even get that invested in a character. And notice... I said it would be a deal-breaker for me...not you.

 

[FireLance]

Wow.....

only leveling up ONE level

Now that is pretty limited.

It's a trap hook!

Somewhere in the product will be a note that you can get to third level (and see more races and classes and builds) by going online and downloading the free demo character builder.

And from there it's just a short step to a full DDI subscription...

 

[Dragonblade]

Its a $20 box set complete with dice, tokens, maps, a mini PHB and a mini DMG with monsters.

Its designed to allow a complete game experience for a DM and an entire group of players. I think its a pretty good deal to do all that for $20 bucks. So I won't hold it against WotC that it only covers one level. Its not a product aimed at me anyway. I'll just pick up the new builds and powers through DDI.

Its designed to pique the interest of a young adult hanging out in the boardgame or fantasy section of a mass market bookseller or other shop who may have never heard of D&D. Or heard of it but was intimidated by the $105 entry fee for the PHB1, DMG1, and MM1.

I think its a pretty good deal and definitely hearkens back to the old box sets.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Where is this mention of $20 for the red box you speak of?

 

[Stormonu]

Wow.....

only leveling up ONE level

Now that is pretty limited.

Also, consider how long it used to take to level in the old basic game - I seem to recall it taking a month or two with four or six-hour sessions back in the day. On the other hand, in our first 4E game, the characters in my game were leveling about once a session.

 

[Echohawk]

Where is this mention of $20 for the red box you speak of?

Right here on the product page.

 

[Echohawk]

Somewhere in the product will be a note that you can get to third level (and see more races and classes and builds) by going online and downloading the free demo character builder.

Actually, based on this article, it looks like the progression path is something like this:

1. Red Box: levels 1-2 [$19.99]
2. Heroes of the Fallen Lands: levels 1-30, classic classes (fighters, rogues, clerics, wizards, rangers) and races (humans, dwarves, eladrin, elves, halflings) [$19.99] OR
3. Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: levels 1-30, mixed classes (clerics, rogues, paladins, rangers, druids, warlocks) and exotic races (dragonborn, drow, half-elves, tieflings) [$19.99]

So the hook is more likely to be to buy one of the "Heroes of..." soft covers once you progress past 2nd level.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

LOL--I don't know if they'll be able to draw new players in like they want to, but they'll certainly have a lot of old-timers lining up to get this stuff. Nostalgia does sell.

As for the dungeon tiles in a box--that is one of those ideas that it is so intuitively obvious that you've got to wonder why they didn't think of it before.



I totally agree and have been touting this basic/advanced approach for awhile. But I think the reason they didn't do this sooner was that they rushed 4E out of the gate a bit too quickly.

The reason they didn´t do it was that you sell stuff first to your established market, and then you pull in newbies. Not the other way round. A year of beginner products would have turned off A LOT of fans.

And level 1-2 reduces the wall of powers significantly. Good decision. This box has to teach fun gameplay without driving people off. For that, one level is enough.

 

[FireLance]

Actually, based on this article, it looks like the progression path is something like this:

1. Red Box: levels 1-2 [$19.99]
2. Heroes of the Fallen Lands: levels 1-30, classic classes (fighters, rogues, clerics, wizards, rangers) and races (humans, dwarves, eladrin, elves, halflings) [$19.99] OR
3. Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms: levels 1-30, mixed classes (clerics, rogues, paladins, rangers, druids, warlocks) and exotic races (dragonborn, drow, half-elves, tieflings) [$19.99]

So the hook is more likely to be to buy one of the "Heroes of..." soft covers once you progress past 2nd level.

That might indeed be the intended "print only" progression path for those who do not have internet access.

However, for those that do, I think that WotC would be foolish not to give them a taste of DDI's potential, possibly hooking them into what is presumably a more stable and longer-term revenue stream.

 

[Ariosto]

At last, the people who like to 'tell' other people such things can claim that it's "just nostalgia" to play 4E!

When it comes to trade dress, though, I think there's the same kernel of truth here as in a lot of "old school" packaging. I also think it makes more sense in most of those contexts than in this one. The cover of Hackmaster Basic is sub-par Erol Otus, but it's the real thing -- and HB is (I think) more clearly aimed at Hackmaster fans eager to jump into the new edition.

The original red box -- Moldvay basic -- presented the first three of just 14 levels in the combination with simultaneously published Expert. That's 21%, and the books were available separately (more affordable for a kid than the boxed sets). There was a projected Companion before the Mentzer rewrite -- but not a lot of precedent for higher-level PCs. The Original and Advanced games were really not geared to 30th level (what with deities and demigods in the mere teens, rarely past 25th).

In the original campaigns, Blackmoor and Greyhawk, 14 levels were apparently ample for half a decade's play. With 4E, there's quite a different dynamic.

One level of advancement is certainly better than none, as is (I presume) provision for building characters of one's own rather than just playing pre-gens. Call it one small step for D&Ders, one giant leap for WotC.

The new plan for Dungeon Tiles is in that context almost reckless innovation for the firm that made its mark with a collectible card game. I'll bet I'm not the only one who considers it something like common sense from the consumer's standpoint, though. Those module maps based on tiles might be a bit handier when I can actually get the tiles to build them.