The new Use Magic Device: Good or bad?

[Wippit Guud]

Well... I have a 10th level bard in my one table-top campaign, and he gets +23 to use a scroll (13 ranks, +4 cha, +2 feat, +4 in synergies)... and if were to, for example, get a 7th level scroll, they'd rather I try to cast it than the 10th level cleric.

 

[jgsugden]

It doesn't take much planning for an abuse of UMD. I walked into it accidentally.

My sorcerer decided to take 2 cross class ranks in it so that he could have some fun playing around with items for other classes. That effectively gave him 1 rank. He started off with an 18 charisma, raised it three times by 12 level, gained a +1 inherent bonus from a tome and has a +6 enhancement bonus. That gives him a +9 on his charisma checks - for a total UMD of 10. Outside of combat, he can take 10 with any wand to use it. For a sorcerer, stumbling into being a 'wand boy' is a little too easy.

In my games, I handled this by removing the UMD skill. Instead, bards and rogues gain an ability at 6th level that allows them to use spellcraft checks to get a UMD effect.

To make this work, I had to add spellcraft to the rogue list, but that is no big deal - I kind of like rogues getting spellcraft. It helps explain how they can disable magical traps. I also have a -5 penalty on all spellcraft checks in my game if the spell being identified is not on your class list (and rogues have no class list).

Making UMD a class ability instead of a class skill keeps the feel of 'exclusive skills' around without actually having exclusive skills.

 

[Christian]

That gives him a +9 on his charisma checks - for a total UMD of 10. Outside of combat, he can take 10 with any wand to use it. For a sorcerer, stumbling into being a 'wand boy' is a little too easy.

Well, you can't actually take 10 with UMD ... But the point survives that, I think.

 

[Spatula]

Both Spellcraft and Decipher Script offer synergy bonuses to UMD for scrolls only, which gives that sorcerer with an 18 Cha a check of +16 if they have the feat. Using a scroll is 20+level, so on a roll of 10, that harm spell goes off...

... it's not even a roll with a bard

Well, UMD is a class skill for bards.

For the sorcerer, take 10 won't do it for a harm scroll (DC is 20+caster level, caster level for a 6th level spell is at least 11). And the sorcerer only gets 2 + Int mod skill points per level, and Decipher Script isn't a class skill either. If a 9th level character has devoted that much of his character towards UMD and wants to blow 1650 gp on a one-shot harm scroll that has 3-4 high chances to do nothing (needs a UMD roll of 15 to activate, needs a 16 wisdom or a UMD roll of 15 emulate it, needs to hit with a melee touch attack, and the target still gets a save for half), then I say go for it.

 

[jgsugden]

Well, you can't actually take 10 with UMD ... But the point survives that, I think.

Yep. I keep forgetting that. My bad. The effect is the same, however. With 9 ranks, you can avoid a mishap, so all you lose is time.

 

[Stalker0]

Okay, so what I'm hearing is is that some of you are worried a 10th level fighter is going to use a wand to do a 5d6 fireball with a low save instead of two of his attacks, an ability he had to give up virtually all his skill ranks for?

Or a wizard will use it so he can now use a wand of cure mod and my cleric can actually save his spells for things other than healing his butt?

It sounds good to me

BTW, I really don't like the idea of "bluffing" the item. Cha is not just a bluff stat, its a measure of a person's power with magic (aka sorcs and the fact all spell-like abilities are based on cha). So I see it as more your magical affinity with the item than bluffing it.

 

[Deset Gled]

Okay, so what I'm hearing is is that some of you are worried a 10th level fighter is going to use a wand to do a 5d6 fireball with a low save instead of two of his attacks, an ability he had to give up virtually all his skill ranks for?

No, I'm more worried about a fighter who can now cast Fly on himself. Or Enlarge Person, or Mirror Image, or Silence, or Invisibility, or True Strike. A lot of utility spells can give you a lot of bang for the buck. The net affect is not just that the fighter is more powerful, but also that the caster is now less powerful, because some of their abilities are simply not needed.

Also, some people have mentioned in their arguements that it's bad to try and use this skill if you don't have an high bonus for it. It's important to note that in 3.5 there is no longer a chance of a mishap when activating an item with UMD. You don't even use up the item if you fail to activate it. So there is no harm in attempting to use a magic item and failing. During combat, it may still be detrimental to waste an action, but outside of combat the worst that can happen is that you cannot attempt to activate the item again for 24 hours (if you roll a 1).

 

[The Souljourner]

UMD is Charisma based because it describes your ability to use your personality to affect things outside yourself. It's mental strength, for all intents and purposes. So while you could be bluffing the wand into working for you, it could also be seen as metally strong-arming it into working for you.

Don't forget, you can't take 10 on UMD.

I don't know any fighters with charisma better than 10, or 12 if they rolled really well. It is BY FAR the most dumped stat. Let's assume 12 Charisma. Now at 9th level you get a fat 6 ranks, which means you have +7 to your UMD. Are you really going to blow a feat on skill focus? Ok, let's assume you do, for some strange reason.... now you have +10. You still fail to activate a wand 1/2 the time.

Why is this overpowered, when the party rogue, bard, cleric, sorcerer, or wizard could just pick up the wand and use it on you anyway? You've spent a feat and 12 skill points (from a class that gets so few) in order to sometimes be able to activate a wand. Watch me as I quake in fear.

And don't give me this item of +5 to UMD... that's purely houserule material, and any DM that allows it deserves what he gets.

-The Souljourner

one more thing... a quote from the SRD:

If you fail by 9 or less, you can’t activate the device. If you fail by 10 or more, you suffer a mishap. A mishap means that magical energy gets released but it doesn’t do what you wanted it to do. The default mishaps are that the item affects the wrong target or that uncontrolled magical energy is released, dealing 2d6 points of damage to you.

So mishaps don't happen often once you reach mid levels with crossclass ranks, but up until then, you have a skill that can do as much damage as a greatsword. Fun stuff.

 

[0-hr]

It doesn't mention anything about mishaps with wand activation. Does that mean you can just keep trying until it works or you roll a 1 (in which case you can't try again for 24 hours)? Does failure to activate the wand even use up a charge? It doesn't seem so.

This seems like a good skill to make a Class Skill for sorcerers - you just channel raw magical energy into the device and make it work through sheer force of will. Well, it makes more sense than Bluff anyway

 

[Deset Gled]

A lot of stuff you've mentioned I've already addressed, but...

If you fail by 9 or less, you can’t activate the device. If you fail by 10 or more, you suffer a mishap. A mishap means that magical energy gets released but it doesn’t do what you wanted it to do. The default mishaps are that the item affects the wrong target or that uncontrolled magical energy is released, dealing 2d6 points of damage to you.

So mishaps don't happen often once you reach mid levels with crossclass ranks, but up until then, you have a skill that can do as much damage as a greatsword. Fun stuff.

This only happens when activating a device blindly. When activating a known device, there is no chance of mishap. Kinda makes that wand (DC 20) of identify important, but it's not all that limiting.