The new Use Magic Device: Good or bad?

[jgsugden]

I've seen characters go from 200 hp to 0 in 1 round, and I've seen them take out BBEG in one round.... one round matters.

In combat, yes. Out of combat, generally no. I wasn't clear in that message, but generally I'm speaking of how useful the skill is out of combat.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Who cares about error free? All you need to do is avoid mishaps ... which only happen under certain siuations in 3.5 and only if you fail by a large amount. You may not be able to take 10, but if there is no possibility of a penalty for failure other than a lost round of time, you might as well be able to take 10.

Yes, if we are talking about non-combat situations then errors have little or no cost. But what are these non-combat scenarios where letting the sorceror use that wand is abusive? Couldn't he just hand that wand to the cleric, druid, bard, or rogue and get the same results in almost every case?

During combat or that precious buff round before, what amazing combination justifies the cost of a 30% failure for the action? I am having troble imagining what wand could possibly bear great advantage to a sorceror of all people.

Frankly I am doubtful that letting all 12+ level characters use whatever wands would be unbalancing. I would actually not want to play that way for flavor reasons (e.g. stealing the bard/rogue's thunder), but it could be a useful thought experiment.

What are these abusive combos?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

While the level at which this happens is arguable, that question is by and large a major point of this thread.

I for one say yes, it is unbalancing, but not in the way that you seem to be expecting. It's not unbalancing in a way that it gives one class a lot more power than any other class; it's unbalancing because it makes some classes LESS powerful (which isn't something I can prove by a single example of an overpowered build). By giving spellcasting abilities to all classes that are normally spell-free, it lowers the power of casting classes

As a practical matter we are talking about high level characters due to the wealth requirements. Most non-spellcasters can grab a single level of a spellcaster class to gain all these benefits in spades if they really care to. If I grab a single level of cleric with Magic domain I can use almost every wand under the sun.

There are also not many classes that technically are nonspellcasting: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue.

IMO UMD was designed as a class feature of the Rogue in the first place, so I would not rate that a problem.

Keep in mind that DMs typically will allow most spell effects for a twice or three times per day Command activated item. Such an item has approximately the same cost as a new wand. IME players do not get all that excited about wands because if the spell effect is so attractive they will shell out the cash to get the permenant item instead of spending the same amount of money (+ skillpoints) on a half-measure.

 

[Stalker0]

double post

 

[Saeviomagy]

Also, a brief error that many people seem to make: you cannot get a mishap from using a scroll via UMD. Scroll errors only occur when you fail a caster level check (and a wis check). Since you don't have to make a caster level check with UMD, only an activation check, mishaps are not possible.

Eh?

Your level when using a device is equal to your check -20.

If you're not a high enough caster level to use a scroll properly, you need to make a caster level check to do so.

If you fail the caster level check, you must make a wisdom check

If you fail that, then you suffere a mishap.

I think that's right, isn't it?

 

[I'm A Banana]

it's unbalancing because it makes some classes LESS powerful (which isn't something I can prove by a single example of an overpowered build). By giving spellcasting abilities to all classes that are normally spell-free, it lowers the power of casting classes

By that rationale, no one but Fighters should be able to wield longswords, and no one but Clerics should be able to wear heavy armor, and no one but Rogues should be able to hide in shadows. Because allowing just anyone to wield a weapon, wear an armor, or sneak around makes classes who are the best at doing those things weaker. Also, wizards should not have any spells that boost physical stats, or give bonuses to skill rolls, since that takes away from the powers of the classes with more skills and more Strength....

That's 2e thinkin', that is. Get the rope, I think we needs a lynchin'.