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The Opposite of Railroading...

The Thayan Menace

First Post
DR5/Deconstruction

S'mon said:
"Hey Man, You're Thwarting My Agency!"
For the record, I used to game with an English major who was obsessed with literary criticism. :D

S'mon said:
I would never try this on a GM and I wouldn't be too keen on a player trying it on me.
Fair enough. I've never had a problem with Rule #1 ... or quitting a table.

-Samir
 

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The Green Adam

First Post
jgbrowning said:
To me, it means you're running a game with multiple plot options subject to change based upon the actions of the PCs.

joe b.

To me this is the perfect definition. Railroading may seem subjective to some but in essence it really means only one thing, the adventure will take you from one encounter to the next regardless of your (the PC's) actions (excluding death I suppose).

I prefer a completely freewheeling style of play (with some exceptions, such as being given a definitive goal by a patron). My players' PCs exist in my universe and can do whatever they like as long as they are physically and mentally capable of doing it. I don't really design adventures in the traditional sense, though I do create campaign plotlines and general goals. The rest of the time the "adventures" are based on the individual and/or combined goals of the characters. Exceptions do apply of course. In Star Trek, Starfleet officers must go on missions assigned by Starfleet Command and that sort of thing. However, if no such overseeing entity exists or has sway over the party, they are free to come and go and explore the milieu as they please.
 

Kahuna Burger

First Post
My games generally have a definite plot, set by me, but only the largest of plots, not the proper resolution of it. Not a railroad, not a sandbox.

As an example, in one game, the PCs were semi-voluntarily banished to a remote and largely inhospitable isle after a change of ruling family among their elven lords also changed the societal status of non-elves. The campaign opened on the boat, so it was going to be a story of going to the isle. But what they did there - how they founded the colony, whether they wanted to build a new world or an army to overthrow their old one, whether they wanted to ignore the other emigrants and strike out on their own - that was all them. It wasn't a sandbox, or it was a very small one if it was, but it wasn't a railroad either.

My next campaign will be based on the Darwath trilogy by Barbara Hambly, which involves the rise of an ancient evil and survival of a realm. The players will know in advance that their job is to defend humanity from the Dark, and their first move will be fairly obvious (as there is only one place in the realm that can provide a temporary shelter) but beyond that I will not be trying to force them into following the books at all. (In fact the way the books ended the threat was kinda lame, imo, and probably won't even be an option.) There is no one single option that wins, but there is a very definite plan for what the story is about.
 

Oryan77

Adventurer
I've learned that a lot of gamers like to use the term railroading as a negative way to play D&D just so they'll appear to be better gamers.

I don't think railroading is always a bad thing depending on how you are railroading. I'd even bet that most DMs can't continue to run a fun game when the players derail from the current pre-planned adventure. My experience is that it turns into a bunch of random encounters with no real thought behind it. Then it just gets boring. Those same DMs will be the ones boasting about how they don't railroad and that railroading is bad.

Sometimes a DM isn't as good as another DM at creating fun scenarios on the fly in a completely open ended game. So he uses published adventures. Maybe he doesn't have time to create alternate routes for that adventure and he just wants to run the material that he bought at the store. Is it wrong for him to keep PC's on a straight and narrow path so he doesn't waste his time & money? If he can keep the illusion that he's not keeping the PC's on a path, then I don't think railroading is wrong. As long as it's not some obvious situation that seems impossible or unlikely to have happened, then I think it's fine to block players from going in different directions.

It might be railroading to keep a party going towards the end of the track, but as long as they can take alternate routes and still end up at the end, then it's good with me.
 

BiggusGeekus

That's Latin for "cool"
Alright You Primitive Screwheads, Listen Up!

Note: below I give examples to help you use these concepts. I would expect that most of you (at least the ones who don't have to mouth the words as they read) are able to come up with ideas that are more robust and less silly. I am only using these examples so as not to stretch the boundaries of my time and your vocabulary.

1) Define your campaign and it's goals. You guys should have done this already, but there may be a couple of mouth breathers in the back row. If your campaign is completely open ended or dependent on 3rd party material (e.g. an adventure path or published world) then your job is a little bit harder but not that much.

EXAMPLE: "In this campaign the PCs will fight the evil necromancer and defeat him before he gets the Dohickey of the Gods +5"


2) Come up with a list of consequences if this campaign goal is not met. Tie each of these to a level of PC progression, only expressed as a negative number. A terrific example can be found in Chapter 14 of the Murchad's Legacy Campaign Setting, but since none of you chowder-heads so much as looked at the cover of that magnificent tome, you have no idea what I'm talking about. So, I'll have to relate an example here:

0 : this is where the PCs start the game at level 1
- 5 : small towns everywhere report that the dead have risen from their places of rest
-10 : The Kingdom of Fyrst't'dyye falls to the necromancer's skeleton horde
-15 : The necromancer completes his Dastardly Ritual and night itself grows longer and the sun dimmer. From this point out, anyone who dies at -10 hp, dies at -7 hp.
-20 : The necromancer gets the Dohickey of the Gods +5 and makes everybody sad.

This rating will decrease by one step every time the PCs as a group advance a level. Now, do you see what happens? At the -20 mark the bad guy wins. You know how people used to tell you that you can't win at RPGs? Well, they also used to tell you the Easter Bunny was real, so it's time to set some boundaries on your campaign and let the PCs know that sitting in their chairs like the slackjawed losers that they are will result in failure.

3) Now, it's time to give them some positives. From here, write up a list going from 0 to 10.

10 : The PCs have defeated evil! Time for ice cream and pie!
5 : Spring is lush and the harvest bountiful! When rolling for hp, the PCs roll two dice and choose the higher value.
0 : this is where the PCs start the game at level 1

Now. How to get that pie?

4) This is where you list out different ways for the PCs to advance the goal of killing the necromancer.

EXAMPLES:
PCs recover a part of the magical Big Stick of Three Scattered Parts (+1 for each part)

A PC convinces the beautiful Princess OoohLaLa to marry him and her kingdom's flying unicorns are added to the party's cause (+1 and everyone gets a flying unicorn)

The PCs spend the entire level killing a lot of undead (+1 ... this is boring but it's also something they'll think of if they aren't used to coming up with their own goals)

In case you weren't paying attention (or got distracted when your complete set of Hayden Christensen gifs downloaded) that sets up a dungeon crawl, a roleplay adventure, and a simple creature hackfest. You'll also want to put in a goal that's open ended itself, such as this:

The PCs build a castle or tower worth at least 50,000gp. (+1 ... and it burns up all that treasure in case you gave them too much!)

Each one of these goals should be about a level's worth of adventure. Less if you have a lot of your own ideas you want to try out or if you're just in a mood to make the party miserable.

5) Now we have a range of progression from 10 to -20 and ways to go up and down that range. And these all are PC driven! You have your own adventures, of course. You'll need them for extra drama because the ranged method lacks a way to build in climax unless each and every one of the goals looks like this:

The PCs must destroy the Dohickey of the Gods +5 in the lava of Mount Big (+12 and the Tolkien estate sues you for copyright violation).

What you need now is some story arc side quests. For example, let's say in your game world the elves and the dwarves don't like each other much.

1 - Elves and Dwarves don't like each other
2 - Elves and Dwarves give each other fruitcake for Christmas
3 - Elves and Dwarves get along just fine and eat pie together

This mini arc won't progress. It'll stay stuck at 1. If the PCs want to move it, they'll have to do some roleplay and/or questing. Here's another one:

1 - The slaved oppressed people are enslaved
2 - The slaved oppressed people are outcast, but free and are under constant danger of being re-slaved
3 - They're free! Pie for everyone!

You should also put in a mini arc that's a tangent for when the party is high level or has achieved some major accomplishment against the goal of the campaign. Here's a sample of a tangent, if the PCs are successful they'll remove a monster from the game world forever. The idea here is simply to introduce a potential threat that might grow in scope even if the PCs beat the necromancer. It's like the elf-dwarf thing, only things might get worse unless the PCs do something. Or they might not. It's a risk they'll have to evaluate.

1 (starts at level 15) - The necromancer in an attempt to push the PCs back, have gotten demons and trolls together to make Demon-Trolls! (trolls with the fiend template) Yikes!
2 (20% of getting here each level advance) - Demon-Trolls rampage unless the PCs blow up the Demon-Troll maker! If they do that, no more Demon-Trolls ever again. Phew! Close call. Time for pie.

Again, moving these mini-arcs up one requires an adventure of about one level in length. Now, those of you who don't have to take off your shoes to count to 20 have realized that in a planned campaign of level 1 to 20 that I've suggested 26 or 27 levels of stuff so far. So how can they accomplish all of this by level 20? They can't. That's the idea. They'll have to make some decisions. However, as bad as that might seem to them, there's a great way to make it worse.

6) Make them quest for Prestige Classes. Nothing big. Maybe a small adventure about 4 to 5 encounters in length. But make them work for it. This is also a spectacular way to restrict prestige classes you don't really like, but the PCs want. Just tell them the guy who teaches the Overpowered And Unplaytested Prestige Class lives on top of Mount Faraway beneath the Dragon Caves. Make 'em work for it. In the meantime the necromancer is only getting tougher. In my personal and incredibly awesome opinion everyone should be doing this anyway and if I find out some of you dudes aren't, I'll come over to your house and smash your dice with my sledgehammer. You can also do this with feats and spells.

You have to lay it all out for some players. Show them what goals are out there. Tell them they aren't getting the cool stuff unless they work for it. Enforce consequences for inaction. You'll see those zombie like gazes of incomprehension disappear and they'll become more active in your game.

Happy gaming!

-BG
 

I like the word freewheeling. I don't think that it's been given a precise term before. Joe's definition is cool, as is the one that goes with freewheeling.

Extemporaneizing from an unexpected turn by the players is one of those moments that seems to stop a lot of DMs. Rather than get into the details, I think it's important to look at the all important Buy Time Manuever. This is a cleverly worded excuse to give you five minutes to think:

*I gotta hit the head.
*Pizza break! I got the munchies.
*Ooops, that's my phone. Gotta take this.
*Cigarette? Cigar?
*Hey, is that a giant cheese asteroid? Let's go outside and look

Insert your own!
 

robberbaron

First Post
I am guilty of often setting the PCs on a railroad (you've got to start somewhere), but I do let them off at the stations along the way. Sometimes, they decide not to complete the journey.

Every time they step off the train they do something I never considered. Players, huh?
 

Raven Crowking

First Post
S'mon said:
I disagree. If the GM says "Hey, want to play Temple of Elemental Evil?", the players agree, then refuse to take part in the adventure so the GM has no game, that's not railroading.

It isn't railroading with a negative connotation, but it is an agreed upon set of tracks.

(If for no other reason than because otherwise you could say DragonLance isn't a railroad!)

IMHO, of course. YMMV.
 

S'mon

Legend
Raven Crowking said:
It isn't railroading with a negative connotation, but it is an agreed upon set of tracks.

(If for no other reason than because otherwise you could say DragonLance isn't a railroad!)

IMHO, of course. YMMV.

Dragonlance is a railroad because of the 'obscure death rule' and other elements intended to ensure it plays out just like the novels, not because it's a linear adventure path.
 

Raven Crowking

First Post
S'mon said:
Dragonlance is a railroad because of the 'obscure death rule' and other elements intended to ensure it plays out just like the novels, not because it's a linear adventure path.


Obviously, we use different definitions of the word "railroad". To me, a railroad is a linear adventure path. It is called a "railroad" because it is on rails, thus linear. The "obscure death rule" and other elements are there to help make it linear.....Just far more so than, say, playing Savage Tide.
 

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