The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Cartigan Mrryl]

Well - it would depend upon the paladin's God. I have a God in my own World Called Volark, God Of Righteous Fury... he'd approve. But Most other Gods wouldn't... so Paladin-boy isn't a Paladin anymore - dead fact.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

See, that's a good question...but I'd say in a LG kingdom, since said halfling wasn't caught in the commission of a crime, he'd go to jail, then to trial. And given the paladin's proximity to the issue, I have very serious doubts he could act objectively as court on the street.

Do they really have trials though or would a constable hear the plea and pass judgement? In that case I think the Paladin would have authority to do the same.

edit for crappy spelling

 

[Jim Hague]

Do they really have trials though or would a contable hear the plea and pass judegment? In that case I think the Paladin would have authority to do the same.

Ah, but the key note here is objectivity - justice is blind, after all. And the paladin most certainly wasn't objective. Ergo, he can't act as judge, jury and executioner - and executioner assumes the crime is worthy of death in the first place, which as an accessory to an assault it likely wouldn't be.

 

[tonym]

...And if even a handful of people start referring to this particular god as "Heironeous Halfling-Smiter (But Only When They're Helpless!)"...the Big Guy's not gonna be happy with his so-called paladin.

This is the kind of solution I like: mundane repercussions amongst the populace.

Misc ideas:
* Some townsfolk start to fear the paladin and avoid him
* An investigation by the constable is launched into the killing
* The church investigates the past several years of the paladin's life

Stuff like this creates an opportunity for roleplaying (and also sends a message to the player that he is on thin ice with the DM). Contrariwise, atoneing to get powers back sucks eggs.

Yoinking the paladin's powers...I just don't like it. It looks like another standard case of an overly-controlling DM cramping a player's style for no good reason. If yoinking was justified, 90% or more more of people would agree with the yoinking, I bet. Unlike this situation.

If the DM thinks the paladin has changed his alignment to CG, then fine--do that. Change his alignment and strip him of paladinhood. But don't say (or imply) that the player did a pathetic job of running a paladin. The player did nothing unequivocably wrong.

By the way, an hour ago I added a new group of Heironeous paladins to my world. They have a nifty new feat called Punitive Necksnap...


Tony M

 

[Jim Hague]

If the DM thinks the paladin has changed his alignment to CG, then fine--do that. Change his alignment and strip him of paladinhood. But don't say (or imply) that the player did a pathetic job of running a paladin. The player did nothing unequivocably wrong.

By the way, an hour ago I added a new group of Heironeous paladins to my world. They have a nifty new feat called Punitive Necksnap...


Tony M

Uh, yeah, he did, and it's been pretty conclusive - he's playing the paladin like any other sword jock, save for the Kewl Powerz. He's repeatedly skirted close to the edge of CE. He murdered a guy in the middle of the street.

I'd make that group fallen paladins, if I were you.

 

[Demmero]

Do they really have trials though or would a contable hear the plea and pass judegment? In that case I think the Paladin would have authority to do the same.

Maybe, but the paladin in this thread didn't even do that. He roughed up the halfling until he got a confession (perhaps under duress) that he was providing a distraction, found out that his wife had been assaulted (but apparently not harmed), and decided then and there to snap the halfling's neck. No chance to explain any other circumstances the paladin ought to know before rendering his brand of 'justice.'

 

[MrKen]

What ???

:: snicker, snicker :: It is obvious that Paladins are supposed to do only act of Goodness, smart should have nothing to do with it. Nothing else! So, the Evil Halfling is an accomplice to the murder of the Paladins wife and unborn child. It is clear the Paladin must assist the Evil Halfling and his accomplices in hacking up his wife and child. Wouldn’t want to hurt the evil characters feelings. And the Paladin will just have to burn in hell because evil characters have feelings too.

Come on people, evil is evil and eliminating evil is what Paladins do. There is no need to judge evil as a Paladin KNOWS evil on sight. A Paladin must eliminate the evil. Not eliminating the evil would be an act of evil on the part of the Paladin.

This is what is the problem with our western society. We feel we must accommodate everyone including those who commit evil acts no matter what. And in so doing we become evil.

 

[Demmero]

Curse of the 10-Page Thread

He murdered a guy in the middle of the street.

No, I believe the halfling came to his door and was let into the paladin's house. Though in the course of a 10-page thread, maybe I'm forgetting facts myself

Also, there was no kidnapping, no attempted murder of the wife, and no confirmation that the halfling distraction was a Chaotic Evil rogue.

Now...we return you to your previously scheduled thread!

 

[Jim Hague]

:: snicker, snicker :: It is obvious that Paladins are supposed to do only act of Goodness, smart should have nothing to do with it. Nothing else! So, the Evil Halfling is an accomplice to the murder of the Paladins wife and unborn child. It is clear the Paladin must assist the Evil Halfling and his accomplices in hacking up his wife and child. Wouldn’t want to hurt the evil characters feelings. And the Paladin will just have to burn in hell because evil characters have feelings too.

Hi! Maybe you should check your facts before posting. The halfling lured the paladin outside. There was an assault, not a murder. But don't let that stop you from snickering, y'know, being dead wrong. Here's what happened:

The paladin (married, with a pregnant wife) was called down to the street in the middle of the night by a messenger: a halfling who said he had a message but then hemmed and hawed about what it was -- then tried to scamper off. The paladin grabbed him -- and then learned that just after he left his room, someone had assaulted his wife. The paladin asked a couple more questions, at which point it became clear that the halfling was involved in the assault. The paladin then attempted to kill the halfling (and may have succeeded; I ended the session at that point, as it was a good cliffhanger).

Come on people, evil is evil and eliminating evil is what Paladins do. There is no need to judge evil as a Paladin KNOWS evil on sight. A Paladin must eliminate the evil. Not eliminating the evil would be an act of evil on the part of the Paladin.

This is what is the problem with our western society. We feel we must accommodate everyone including those who commit evil acts no matter what. And in so doing we become evil.

Wrong again. A paladin can use detect evil at will, as per the spell. It's not automatic, not 'on sight', not instantaneous. And please try to keep your political opinions out of this, 'kay? thanks.

 

[Demmero]

:: snicker, snicker :: It is obvious that Paladins are supposed to do only act of Goodness, smart should have nothing to do with it. Nothing else! So, the Evil Halfling is an accomplice to the murder of the Paladins wife and unborn child. It is clear the Paladin must assist the Evil Halfling and his accomplices in hacking up his wife and child. Wouldn’t want to hurt the evil characters feelings. And the Paladin will just have to burn in hell because evil characters have feelings too.

Come on people, evil is evil and eliminating evil is what Paladins do. There is no need to judge evil as a Paladin KNOWS evil on sight. A Paladin must eliminate the evil. Not eliminating the evil would be an act of evil on the part of the Paladin.

This is what is the problem with our western society. We feel we must accommodate everyone including those who commit evil acts no matter what. And in so doing we become evil.

Darn, this snuck in before my fact-fixing memo posted. ::Sighs::

So, the Evil Halfling

We don't know this; the paladin never bothered to even use Detect Evil on him. We know he was playing some part in an evil act (the home invasion/etc.) but don't know if he's just a stooge.

is an accomplice to the murder of the Paladins wife and unborn child

She wasn't murdered; in fact, she seems completely unharmed.

Oh, BTW, she wasn't kidnapped either.

It is clear the Paladin must assist the Evil Halfling and his accomplices in hacking up his wife and child.

No, not entirely.

Come on people, evil is evil and eliminating evil is what Paladins do.

To a point, but 'eliminating' doesn't have to mean 'snapping the neck of a captive.' Also, there are degrees of evil. let me pull a couple of examples out of thin air: you might have a halfling who takes his friends to the paladin's house to hack up the guy's wife and unborn child (Very Evil) or you might have a generally nice and popular halfling who owes money to the wrong person and is told his debt will be forgiven if he knocks on a door, asks to see Joe, and keeps him busy for a while...and is also told that something bad will happen to his wife and three kids if he doesn't comply (a slightly evil act done by a generally good person).

There is no need to judge evil as a Paladin KNOWS evil on sight.

I'll need to ask for a rules quote on this one. Detect Evil would help...but that wasn't used in this instance.

This is what is the problem with our western society. We feel we must accommodate everyone including those who commit evil acts no matter what. And in so doing we become evil.

This one gets close to politics, so all I'll say is that IMHO not all evil acts require the death penalty. On the spot. With no semblence of a trial.