The Paladin's Code...and TIME TRAVEL!

[PowerWordDumb]

Better yet, maybe the paladin *did* travel back in time to try and prevent the eventual evil, and failed in such a way as to actually be the inspiration for the BBEG to embark upon his acts of villainy which otherwise left alone he would never have undertaken.

 

[Voadam]

If a paladin could travel back in time and murder a person who would eventually do evil things, is it incumbant upon him to do so...?

Time travel is irrelevant to the moral question here.

It's a trick. Get an axe.

 

[Lela]

Re: Re: The Paladin's Code...and TIME TRAVEL!

Time travel is irrelevant to the moral question here.

It's a trick. Get an axe.

Kill them all, let the gods sort it out.

 

[apocalypstick]

Re: Re: The Paladin's Code...and TIME TRAVEL!

I don't know, but the thread has given me an idea for a Paladin Heresy to stick into my homebrew, so thanks!

and this is, quite literally, the funniest thing I have seen all day:

Hmmmmm. The seminal work on time travel, Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure does not cover this eventuality. But drawing from that source, the paladin would certainly be called to travel back in time and attempt to convince the evil person to "be excellent and party on".

 

[DragonLancer]

I'd have to say no. Regardless of what evil the person will perform, its not for the paladin (or anyone else) to go back and judge that person before he commits his vile acts.

 

[Aitch Eye]

I'd say no, because the evildoer has probably had enough of an effect on circumstances and the behavior patterns of people (both when he was and wasn't doing evil) that killing him in the past will cause a number of people who are entirely innocent to never have been born.

I suppose you could construct a view of morality that doesn't consider "causing to have never existed" as murder though. If the evildoers actions were far-reaching enough, the paladin might also conclude that the effects are morally no different from those of leading a country into war with a great evil. Depending on the way things are set up in the game world, I think it might be better if paladins would need to get the approval of some higher authority for it to be justified within their code.

On the issue of the actions in the past causing the paladin to never have gone back in time: I've always thought the "killing your grandfather" argument was similar to saying that if you blow up your house while you're out of town, you'll die. You're not in the future when it gets changed. If the timestream is messy enough that it allows all the particles that make up your body -- which also existed in the past -- to in effect be duplicated when you travel backward, it's hard to see why it has to retcon you. Or even be "aware" of that future and that you're a part of it. Unless of course you want it to for story reasons.

 

[Angcuru]

Evil is necessary. I know you're saying to yourself: "How can evil be necessary? That don't make no sense to me!" Without evil, there cannot be good. Without dark there is no light! If ever day is a sunny day, then what's a sunny day?! Therefore, by that token, evil, evil, must be good. Lemme hear you say it now. 'Evil is good.' That's right! Now start singin' that! Evil is good! Praise the Lord! Evil is good!

 

[Malcolm]

real question is: why does the paladin feel the need to murder every "evil-doer" out there?

Part of being a Paladin is trusting in one's diety and their power/might. The diety will call the paladin to action at its proper moment and time; it has a plan for bringing others to justice.

Who is to say that the "corpse-waiting-to-happen" cannot change his/her ways and might one day end up saving millions?

time travel discussion aside I think the more important question is: since when do paladins think of themselves as gods? Having powers based on charisma is a sign of strong self-esteem and belief in one's core values; high charisma is not a sign of narcassistic quixotism which leads one to believe They must vanquish all of the world's ills.

the truth behind being a paladin is a life of service and humbleness, not hubris and ego...

 

[s/LaSH]

To the original question: I would say "nay". It's the murder of an innocent, pure and simple.

There's nothing to stop the paladin going back in time and giving the innocent a really stern lecture, however.

Now, if there's absolutely no way to stop Mister Villain in the present, and there's going to be absolute destruction of everything, then it's probably reasonable to warn Mister Young Villain that, if he persists on such-and-such a path, you'll beat him to the ground and cut off his thumbs, but that's no different than saying "If you break into the treasury the holy guards will kill you", now, is it?

That's how I'd justify it, at least. Stop the Big Bad. If you have to use force, do so, but by that point, the Little Bad should know that he's going to become a Big Bad if he persists, and that actively seeking evil is probably a big 'HIT ME' sign to paladins.

There, does that solve anything?


ADDENDA: Predestination.

Gods that exist outside conventional time could well give everyone a destiny. The agent of one god might be called upon to stop the agents of another before they become active. In that case, there's no free will involved; the Little Bad will become the Big Bad, and there's nothing you can do about it - except maybe kill him off.

This is a little extreme, though.

 

[Darkness]

Divination (and prophesies) present the same problem as time travel, BTW:

You might have learned magically that the potter Mark will go on to do great evil in a decade from now (like, because he'll go mad from all the feline/gnomish torture he has to endure, or whatever). But at present, he's just a kindly lunatic who'd do nobody harm. Alas, the flow of his fate is disturbed by cosmic forces beyond any feeble mortal's control. So what do you do?