Pathfinder 2E The Pathfinder Subform Is Definitely Dead - So What?

[GungHo]

The chirurgeon definitely feels like a place they held back a bit because Alchemists kind of have a weird power curve depending on how adaptable you think they are; while I know the community is generally down on them, I feel like there are a lot of people who absolutely swear by their out-of-combat versatility. Personally I think they could have gone a little more ham with them, but while they have some efficiency problems they are definitely not broken.

I added the emphasis to the post above, but some of the limitations folks have around recognizing "out-of-combat versatility" is that some people (players and GMs) are still in the habit of just using the systems for combat and ignoring them for everything else. These things aren't necessarily a "fault" of the system, the GMs, or the players... just some effects of really old habits that limit people recognizing what various things can happen by design because they never looked for them/valued them in the first place. I sometimes catch myself rolling up a character like I'm going to play a computer game and make a pure blaster caster simply because I forgot there was an entire other aspect to the game.

 

[GreyLord]

Some thoughts:

First, I don’t think the subforum is dead since by the time I can get through the storms that are happening here to an internet connection where I can post there’s been over 55 comments.

Second, google is weird about indexing pathfinder 2e videos. You need to search for Pathfinder 2e and not pf2e or any variation if you want to find anything.

Third, abomination vaults is popular enough that it’s getting a hardcover release.

I didn't know this. Interesting (I actually bought that AP too).

I love the AP hardcovers. Anyone have a link?

 

[Retreater]

I didn't know this. Interesting (I actually bought that AP too).

I love the AP hardcovers. Anyone have a link?

Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2): Jacobs, James, Hoskins, Vanessa, Radney-Macfarland, Stephen: 9781640784109: Amazon.com: Books

Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2) [Jacobs, James, Hoskins, Vanessa, Radney-Macfarland, Stephen] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Pathfinder Adventure Path: Abomination Vaults (P2)

www.amazon.com

 

[willrali]

There are games that allow characters to be good at their jobs a sent any optimization...

Pf2 is one of these.

 

[Staffan]

Pf2 is one of these.

Depends on what job you mean. PF2 characters get their core combat numbers up to par as long as they don't actively make bad choices (like not boosting their primary stat or staying away from magic items). The choices you make are more about improved action economy, or allowing you to expand the situations where you get to use your biggest numbers, or improving a less-good number to a good number.

When it comes to skills, however, you do need to focus on a small number of skills or you will fall behind in what is expected of you. Which means that while a low-level character will feel sort-of competent in a moderate number of skills, a high-level character will be great at 1-3 skills and mediocre at the rest.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Depends on what job you mean. PF2 characters get their core combat numbers up to par as long as they don't actively make bad choices (like not boosting their primary stat or staying away from magic items). The choices you make are more about improved action economy, or allowing you to expand the situations where you get to use your biggest numbers, or improving a less-good number to a good number.

What category do you class additional combat or movement options (in regard to the former, I mean additional things you can actually do)?

When it comes to skills, however, you do need to focus on a small number of skills or you will fall behind in what is expected of you. Which means that while a low-level character will feel sort-of competent in a moderate number of skills, a high-level character will be great at 1-3 skills and mediocre at the rest.

Though honesty, for a lot of things mediocre is adequate.

 

[Staffan]

What category do you class additional combat or movement options (in regard to the former, I mean additional things you can actually do)?

Additional combat/movement options generally fall under some sort of action economy and/or using a good number instead of a bad number for a thing. Or widening your competence (rather than sharpening it). Essentially, if your class is about doing X, you won't be able to make many choices to do X+2, but you can certainly get to do X and Y.

What I'm getting at is this: the PF2 character I've been playing the most is an 11th level sorcerer. Pretty much the only choices I've made to make him better at casting has been the no-brainer choice to improve Charisma at levels 5 and 10, so now his Charisma is 20, and he's an Expert at casting, so his spell DC is 29 (10+ proficiency 15 + ability 4), and there's not much more I can do about that.

One choice I have made to actually improve a number has been the general feat Canny Acumen, to improve my Perception proficiency from Trained to Expert. But that's just a catch-up choice – several classes start out with Expert Perception, and many of them get Master at 7th. So that's just a matter of not being as far behind. And now that I hit 11th level, I get Expert Perception from my class, so Canny Acumen no longer helps me and is a prime candidate for retraining once I get some downtime.

Though honesty, for a lot of things mediocre is adequate.

Some people believe so. For me, anything less than success on 8+ for on-level challenges is bad which makes me feel the PF2 skill system is really stingy unless you're a rogue (or investigator). But I've had that discussion on other occasions and it rarely leads anywhere.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Additional combat/movement options generally fall under some sort of action economy and/or using a good number instead of a bad number for a thing. Or widening your competence (rather than sharpening it). Essentially, if your class is about doing X, you won't be able to make many choices to do X+2, but you can certainly get to do X and Y.

Fair enough.

Some people believe so. For me, anything less than success on 8+ for on-level challenges is bad which makes me feel the PF2 skill system is really stingy unless you're a rogue (or investigator). But I've had that discussion on other occasions and it rarely leads anywhere.

I'll tell you the truth; if I'm really wanting consistent competency of that sort a D20 (or D100) based system is not where I'm going to go.

 

[Philip Benz]

I've been folowing this thread, and I can't help but chime in. There's been a lot of interesting discussion about the pros and cons of various classes and the way skills work, but we're a long way from the original post.

I have to say, though, that the title of this thread keeps rubbing me the wrong way. Whether you like the way PF2 works or not, there is really no reason to keep a thread entitled "This Sub-Forum Is Definitely Dead - So What?" at the top of the forum list.

Let's just close this discussion and carry on under some other title. Let this thread drift down the list with no additional posts. Please.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

The system is great, the world is awesome, the marketing is terrible:

Controversy cows creativity:

...To be blunt, there are an increasingly large number of topics I don't feel comfortable engaging with fully anymore on lots of boards, including this one.

A lot of what makes Golarion interesting is the inspiration it pulls from Earth's history and the kind of conflicts it creates, but unfortunately history is messy and nuanced, which makes it a poor choice for discussion when all nuance gets stripped away from conversations by rabid internet tribes.

Hard agree. Big mood.