A fairly high level caster can use Wall of Iron to create several hundred tons of iron with one spell, then use Fabricate to form it up into 10,000 lb coins with his face on one side, then use Shrink Item to shrink them to 2.5 pounds each, then drop then from a high place with Fly spell and Dispel Magic. From 400+ feet up, an 8 foot wide, 4 inch thick coin should do 70d6 damage to whatever it lands on. Are there rules for hitting specific things, or is this only useful for general mess making? It's inspired by those charity coin donation bins that involve trying to land a coin on a small platform through water.
The Penny Game (falling items question)
- Thread starter Kilroy
- Start date
frankthedm
First Post
Falling Block Trap: CR 5; mechanical; location trigger; manual reset; Atk +15 melee (6d6); multiple targets (can strike all characters in two adjacent specified squares); Search DC 20; Disable Device DC 25. Market Price: 15,000 gp.
Sejs
First Post
Well, let's see. Memory serving, the range increment on improvised thrown weapons is 10 feet, so -2 for 11-20 feet out, -4 for 21-30 feet out, -6 for 31-40 feet out, and -8 for 41-50 feet out. Maximum effective operational range of 5 increments, beyond that you might hit something, but your control over what is essentially nil.
So, uh, yeah.
You'll make a big ol' dent in something, but you sure arn't going to land that sucker on any bullseye and win the cupie doll, that's for certain. Not from 400 feet up, anyway.
So, uh, yeah.
You'll make a big ol' dent in something, but you sure arn't going to land that sucker on any bullseye and win the cupie doll, that's for certain. Not from 400 feet up, anyway.
The Edge
First Post
I perfect example of a clever bugger working out how to take advantage of the complex spell system. 
At that size it would be hard to land it in a 'square' and not hit anything. Its just ensureing you can hit the right spot. Also remember that the common 20ft thrown increment is very much takeing gravity into acount. If all you had to do was let go of your throwing knife and it then shot (fell) flawlessly in a certain direction untill something stoped it, the range increment would be very very different.
But you also need to check how far these will fall in one round, otherwise targets would be long gone.
Just to add more spells to that insane list, a know direction spell or similar, would allow the crafty caster to pinpoint exactly when he's directly over his target.
At that size it would be hard to land it in a 'square' and not hit anything. Its just ensureing you can hit the right spot. Also remember that the common 20ft thrown increment is very much takeing gravity into acount. If all you had to do was let go of your throwing knife and it then shot (fell) flawlessly in a certain direction untill something stoped it, the range increment would be very very different.
But you also need to check how far these will fall in one round, otherwise targets would be long gone.
Just to add more spells to that insane list, a know direction spell or similar, would allow the crafty caster to pinpoint exactly when he's directly over his target.
Wonko the Sane
First Post
The Edge said:I perfect example of a clever bugger working out how to take advantage of the complex spell system.
Not all that complex really...this has been around since the Item spell in 2E (maybe 1E, too...things get foggy much before '89...). I've always explained it to my players thusly: The shrink item spell can indeed be used as a weapon, but unless they are prepared to someday face the worst hailstorm ever (think huge anvils), they'll just use the spell to haul treasure home and not to drop heavy things on bad people. So far, no one has tempted fate with misuse.
I agree though, that as written it can be silly, especially when permanency gets involved.
WtS
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Also one wonders how it is being 'grown'.
You get 1 standard and 1 move action in a round.
It takes a standard action to grow the shrunk item in mid-air.
It takes a standard action to throw anything at anything else.
So - either you're dropping the coin (as a free action) and it misses, because you didn't make an attack, or you're not expanding the coin, and it does no damage.
Done.
You get 1 standard and 1 move action in a round.
It takes a standard action to grow the shrunk item in mid-air.
It takes a standard action to throw anything at anything else.
So - either you're dropping the coin (as a free action) and it misses, because you didn't make an attack, or you're not expanding the coin, and it does no damage.
Done.
Wonko the Sane
First Post
Honestly, how far above an unsuspecting victim does an invisible mage need to be when he just says the command word and presto...10,000 lbs of iron appear underneath him. Having no choice but to drop it, it squishes said victim. Maybe a Reflex save for half (same DC as spell) would be in order.
Now, if you used Sleight of Hand to place the "strip of cloth" on his hat, I think he'd just forego the save and move straight on to the squishing part.
It's still pretty abusable in it's simplest form, thus I think that the best way to handle it is the old DM-Player Mutual Non-Abuse Treaty, YMMV. Either that, or get rid of the spell entirely.
Now, if you used Sleight of Hand to place the "strip of cloth" on his hat, I think he'd just forego the save and move straight on to the squishing part.
It's still pretty abusable in it's simplest form, thus I think that the best way to handle it is the old DM-Player Mutual Non-Abuse Treaty, YMMV. Either that, or get rid of the spell entirely.
Aust Diamondew
First Post
I'd just like to point out that a penny falling at terminal velocity will probably not kill a person just bruise him.
Jack Simth
First Post
Oh, just takes two - one to ready an action to dismiss the spell when it's thrown, the other to throw it...
Sejs
First Post
Aust Diamondew said:
*nod* Much the same way you can throw an ant off a tall cliff and the ant will survive just fine, but if you toss a human off the same cliff they will suffer a fatal occurance of deceleration trauma. The 'm' still stands for mass, after all.
Heh, on the other hand, a ten-tousand pound iron coin isn't exactly in the same ballpark as your average penny.
