The Pit Fiend Through the Years - stats comparison

[Quasqueton]

Here is the stats for the standard pit fiend through the years.

Note1: all stats are given in D&D3.0 "terms" where I can

Note2: since I don't know how the forums will handle formatting, some stats are listed seperated by a slash, as so: AD&D1 (1978) / AD&D2 (1989) / D&D3.0 (2000) / D&D3.5 (2003)

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Pit Fiend

Hit Dice:
AD&D1 - 13 (no con mod = 58 hp)
AD&D2 - 13 (no con mod = 58 hp)
D&D3.0 - 13 (+ con mod = 123 hp)
D&D3.5 - 18 (+ con mod = 225 hp)

Armor Class: 23 / 25 / 30 / 40

Number of Attacks: 2 / 6 / 6 / 6

Attack Bonus: +11 / +13 / +19 / +30

Damage:
AD&D1 - 1d4+4, 1d6+6 (avg = 16)
AD&D2 - 1d4, 1d4, 1d6, 1d6, 2d6, 2d4 (avg = 24)
D&D3.0 - 1d6+7, 1d6+7, 1d4+3, 1d4+3, 2d6+3, 2d4+3 (avg = 50)
D&D3.5 - 2d8+14, 2d8+14, 2d6+7, 2d6+7, 4d6+7, 2d8+7 (avg = 111)

Damage Reduction:
AD&D1 - ~/+2 or full damage from silver
AD&D2 - ~/+3 or half damage from silver
D&D3.0 - 25/+2 (nothing special from silver)
D&D3.5 - 15/holysilver

Spell Resistance: 24 / 50% (regardless of caster's level) / 28 / 32

Roll to save vs. Banishment spell: 8 / 8 / 7+* / -1+*
* higher if caster's ability score is higher than 17

Intelligence: 16 / 18 / 20 / 26

Special Immunities:
AD&D1 - cold half, fire full, gas half
AD&D2 - cold half, fire full, gas half, poison full
D&D3.0 - fire full, poison full, cold 20, acid 20
D&D3.5 - fire full, poison full, cold 10, acid 10

Regeneration: 2 / 2 / 5 / 5

Powers:
AD&D1 - animate dead, cause fear, charm person, detect invisible, detect magic, hold person, illusion, infravision, know alignment, poly self, produce flame, pyrotechnics, suggestion, summon devil, teleport no error, wall of fire,

AD&D2 - same as AD&D1 plus: advanced illusion, fireball, improved invisibility, symbol of pain

D&D3.0 - same as AD&D2 plus: blasphemy, create undead, desecrate, dispel magic, magic circle against good, meteor swarm, symbol (any), unholy aura, unhallow

D&D3.5 - same as D&D3.0 plus: mass hold monster (instead of hold person), power word stun


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Discussion?


Quasqueton

 

[Quasqueton]

Was there a pit fiend in the high-level "basic" D&D books? I have Basic and Expert, but no pit fiend there.

Quasqueton

 

[Terraism]

This is really cool, Quasqueton - I can't help answer your question about Basic, 'cause I wasn't playing (or alive) then, but... it really is interesting to see the power level grow.

 

[Deadguy]

I think that what you've demonstrated is that different versions of D&D are, well, different. The absolute numbers mean little unless you have alongside the stats of the PCs who are expected to deal with them.

It does also show that the Pit Fiend has grown in importance over the years, to occupy a special place in the hearts of DMs (and we must hope players! ) Adventures involving Pit Fiends have become signature in the struggle of characters with the Nine Hells.

As for the difference between the 3e and 3.5e versions of the critter, I believe others when they say there's a mismatch between what DMs and players expect a Pit Fiend to be like, and what it plays out like.

Edited Abyss to read Nine Hells! Oops! Thanks to Sir Hawkeye for living up to his handle!

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

You mean the struggle of characters with the Nine Hells.
Unless you mean Pit Fiends are helping them fight the forces of the Abyss, like I have in my current campaign. "The enemy of my enemy is going to stab me in the back at any moment..."

 

[Deadguy]

Oops! What a terrible mistake to make!

I can only say that it is gone 4am local here.

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

Oops! What a terrible mistake to make!

I can only say that it is gone 4am local here.

Perfectly understandable. In the abovementioned campaign, the players still have trouble remembering which side is demons and which is devils.

 

[drnuncheon]

I think that what you've demonstrated is that different versions of D&D are, well, different. The absolute numbers mean little unless you have alongside the stats of the PCs who are expected to deal with them.

I think you'll find that, at least between 2e and 3e, the PCs get more powerful as well. The 16th level NPC fighter in the DMG would have a THACO of 2 (well, -4 really) and he's not even close to what a 16th level PC could do. In 1e (assuming similar stats & equipment), they'd have a THACO of 0 (or +20 in 3e terms) - not as great a difference as with the pit fiend, but still there.

J

 

[jgbrowning]

jgbrowning casts Foresee Future!

Here is the stats for the standard pit fiend through the years.

Note1: all stats are given in D&D3.0 "terms" where I can

Note2: since I don't know how the forums will handle formatting, some stats are listed seperated by a slash, as so: AD&D1 / AD&D2 / D&D3.0 / D&D3.5

****************

Pit Fiend

Hit Dice:
AD&D1 - 13 (no con mod = 58 hp)
AD&D2 - 13 (no con mod = 58 hp)
D&D3.0 - 13 (+ con mod = 123 hp)
D&D3.5 - 18 (+ con mod = 225 hp)
D&D4.0 - 22 (+ con mod = 250 hp)
D&D4.5 - 28 (+ con mod = 320 hp)

Armor Class: 23 / 25 / 30 / 40 / 45/ 50

Number of Attacks: 2 / 6 / 6 / 6/ 6 / 8

Attack Bonus: +11 / +13 / +19 / +30 /+35 / +40

Damage:
AD&D1 - 1d4+4, 1d6+6 (avg = 16)
AD&D2 - 1d4, 1d4, 1d6, 1d6, 2d6, 2d4 (avg = 24)
D&D3.0 - 1d6+7, 1d6+7, 1d4+3, 1d4+3, 2d6+3, 2d4+3 (avg = 50)
D&D3.5 - 2d8+14, 2d8+14, 2d6+7, 2d6+7, 4d6+7, 2d8+7 (avg = 111)
D&D4.0 - 3d8+14, 3d8+14, 3d6+7, 3d6+7, 5d6+7, 3d8+7 (avg = future uncertain; ask again later)
D&D4.5 - 4d8+14, 5d8+14, 4d6+7, 4d6+7, 6d6+7, 4d8+7 (avg = future uncertain; ask again later)

Damage Reduction:
AD&D1 - ~/+2 or full damage from silver
AD&D2 - ~/+3 or half damage from silver
D&D3.0 - 25/+2 (nothing special from silver)
D&D3.5 - 15/holysilver
D&D4.0 - 20/holysilver
D&D4.5 -30/holymoly batman!

Spell Resistance: 24 / 50% (regardless of caster's level) / 28 / 32 / 36 / 40

Roll to save vs. Banishment spell: 8 / 8 / 7+* / -1+* /
-6+* / -10+*
* higher if caster's ability score is higher than 17

Intelligence: 16 / 18 / 20 / 26 / 30 / (+10 more than highest character.)

Special Immunities:
AD&D1 - cold half, fire full, gas half
AD&D2 - cold half, fire full, gas half, poison full
D&D3.0 - fire full, poison full, cold 20, acid 20
D&D3.5 - fire full, poison full, cold 10, acid 10
D&D4.0 - fire full, poison full, cold 15, acid 15
D&D4.5 - fire full, poison full, cold 25, acid 25, holy 25

Regeneration: 2 / 2 / 5 / 5 / 5 / 8

Powers:
AD&D1 - animate dead, cause fear, charm person, detect invisible, detect magic, hold person, illusion, infravision, know alignment, poly self, produce flame, pyrotechnics, suggestion, summon devil, teleport no error, wall of fire,

AD&D2 - same as AD&D1 plus: advanced illusion, fireball, improved invisibility, symbol of pain

D&D3.0 - same as AD&D2 plus: blasphemy, create undead, desecrate, dispel magic, magic circle against good, meteor swarm, symbol (any), unholy aura, unhallow

D&D3.5 - same as D&D3.0 plus: mass hold monster (instead of hold person), power word stun

D&D4.0 - same as D&D3.5 plus: mass haste summoned creatures hold person, power word stun

D&D4.5 - same as D&D4.0 plus: mass power word stun

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Discussion?


Quasqueton

joe b.

 

[Deadguy]

I think you'll find that, at least between 2e and 3e, the PCs get more powerful as well. The 16th level NPC fighter in the DMG would have a THACO of 2 (well, -4 really) and he's not even close to what a 16th level PC could do. In 1e (assuming similar stats & equipment), they'd have a THACO of 0 (or +20 in 3e terms) - not as great a difference as with the pit fiend, but still there.

J

Yup, that's what I was trying to get at, Dr N. As the game and its design expectations have changed over the years, so too must the monsters. I think that the Pit Fiend is also significantly influence, of course, by its much greater prominence as a signature beastie. To defeat a Pit Fiend marks a certain 'coming of age' for high level characters, it appears!