The Pit Fiend Through the Years - stats comparison

[Celebrim]

I think that the real source of the Pit Fiends powers is the inflated expectations over time of what a PC ought to be able to do. Between early first and late first, we say an inflation of the average expected level of PC's and NPC's. High level in early 1st edition meant 9-15th. High level by late first edition meant 18th+. By 2nd edition the high level NPC's had abilities on par with 1st edition deities. The biggest inflation of power came in 2nd edition with the inflation of what magic items the character was expected to own. I can remember in the early 80's having 10th level characters with +2 weapons - +3 weapons were about the limit you would expect to see in a published module and then only for 10th or 12th level characters. I can remember modules in 2nd edition published for 1st-3rd level characters having +4 weapons. Third edition expanded player abilities, which was fine, but maintained the high expectations of levels and equipment - so that you see players casualy suggesting and taking for granted that a give 15th level character has a +5 keen weapon. All this expansion combined over time to belittle the game's monsters, which were already overmatced in 1st edition by 10th level characters. The result is the linear progressions noted.

I wonder how long such trends can continue before they start being seen as the ubsurd conceit that they are.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The problem, once again, is people!

Part of it is probably just an artifact of human expectations. People want the next edition of the game to be better. Thats all well and good, but how do we accomplish that? If you thought that the fighter was not any good in 2nd edition, then how do you quickly and easily get the message accross that the fighter has been improved?

You make it more powerful of course.

I do not think that anyone who has played 2nd edition would disagree that the characters are much more powerful in 3rd ed then they were.

Fighters get some neat tricks.
Rogues get to sneak attack (backstab) more then once every astronomical cycle.
Being a cleric is no longer a liability.
Mages/Sorcerers get some intresting new tricks.
Rolling less then 16 accross the board is no longer automatically cause to obtain a new character asap.

However, now that we have bigger players, we need monsters that are worthy of them. Hell, even Orc's are more badass then they used to be.

I do agree however, that there is now a much greater dependence on magical items for player power. A simple +1 item is not such a big deal anymore. I suppose this makes sense when you consider that a player can reasonably expect to have any non-magical item he could want by about level 5 at the latest.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Knight Otu]

Re: Re: The Pit Fiend Through the Years - stats comparison

jgbrowning casts Foresee Future!

Your spell seems to be slightly flawed, Imho.

Looking at this -

Special Immunities:
AD&D1 - cold half, fire full, gas half
AD&D2 - cold half, fire full, gas half, poison full
D&D3.0 - fire full, poison full, cold 20, acid 20
D&D3.5 - fire full, poison full, cold 10, acid 10
D&D4.0 - fire full, poison full, cold 15, acid 15
D&D4.5 - fire full, poison full, cold 25, acid 25, holy 25

We can clearl see that the trend indicates that cold and acid resistances are going down. Thus, 4.0 would likely see a resistance of 5/5. 4.5 will see no resistance to those attacks, and a slight vulnerability to other attacks.

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Re: The Pit Fiend Through the Years - stats comparison

Your spell seems to be slightly flawed, Imho.

Looking at this -


We can clearl see that the trend indicates that cold and acid resistances are going down. Thus, 4.0 would likely see a resistance of 5/5. 4.5 will see no resistance to those attacks, and a slight vulnerability to other attacks. [/B]

aha! You dear sir obviously cast a logic spell before analyzing my dweomer.

being forsightful i've already cast logic hinder so your assumptions are incorrect!

joe b.

 

[Knight Otu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Pit Fiend Through the Years - stats comparison

being forsightful i've already cast logic hinder so your assumptions are incorrect!

(I'd like a ;D smilie for this)

Of course, the question is, how much logic is useful in trying to foresee developments in D&D?