The Prestige - great movie (spoilers probably)

[Cthulhudrew]

(1) Borden's wife. There is no possible way that she could fail to realize that sometimes "her" Borden was really the twin. Yet the movie presented things such that she didn't know or realize this. Stupid.

Why would she have known? She (and everyone else) knew absolutely nothing of any twin- the Bordens never mentioned it to anyone. That's their tragedy- they wanted so badly to have this trick that no one else could perform, that they were willing to (as he says) live half a life each to ensure that it would be so.

(2) Borden. He essentially sells his daughter to some random nobleman he's never met? While he has a convenient twin on the outside who could check up on the nobleman? Yeah, right. Stupid.

Again, the twin is unknown, nonexistent. To the world at large, there is only one Borden. No twin. He inquires as to whether his brother (I can't recall what his fake name was at the moment) will be able to take the girl, but is informed that that isn't possible.

(3) Cutter. He remarks, "Blind stage hands. I approve." What he doesn't say, but definitely should have, is, "Blind stage hands. Three or four of them. Who all look identical. Er... what the [bleep] is going on here?!" Stupid.

Like John Crichton, I don't recall them looking identical myself. If they were, then I guess Angier must have been using the cloning machine, but I don't know.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

You do recall (as I'm assuming you do) that it was a setup, right? He wasn't trying to keep it a secret. He wanted to frame Borden, so no witnesses could be there.

Actually, while that was my first thought, by the time I got to the end of the movie, I no longer believe that to be the case. I don't think he was concerned about framing Borden- all he cared about was being able to outshine him and create a better magic trick. The fact that he blew Borden's mind and curiosity, and that he ended up being framed for the crime was, IMO, incidental.

As to what makes me think this- well, recall that he did go to find Tesla to have him make him a trick like Borden's. While that was just a red herring planted by Borden, he at least seemed to think that Borden was doing the same thing (or something similar). His version of it was more dramatic, though, because he was the greater showman.

I do think he was probably tickled that things ended up the way they did- with Borden being framed- and the reason he tore up Borden's confession about the trick was because he didn't really care why he did it- he had won. By having Borden reveal his ignorance of the trick (by sneaking backstage as he did), he knew that he had a secret Borden did not. The only reason he wanted Borden's "secret" was to show that he had proven himself the better. By forcing his confession, he was the greater magician, and he didn't need to know the secret.

That being said, I do think that he was taking Borden's daughter not out of spite and vengeance, but because it wasn't as if he could just reveal himself to be alive (and all the questions that would lead to- including the outing of his secret trick), but because circumstances unfortunately would have led to her being an orphan (he didn't know about the brother) and his sense of compassion wanted her taken care of.

Well, I'm sure there was a little bit of vengeance involved, but Angiers- twisted as he became- was still not wholly a bad person, and I think he would want to make sure that Borden's daughter didn't suffer any more due to the pettiness between the two men.

*shrugs* I don't think it really matters to the story but Angier did have many resources. He could have had other people around that made sure that only Borden was allowed back there and no one else. And he was already committing murder/suicide every night anyway so they guy is already a but shaky in the brains department.

He did have some sighted people standing guard- Borden has to get past one of them in order to get backstage. He takes of his fake beard to "prove" he's part of the show- something you wouldn't do for a blind man.

It's just that Angier evidently didn't hire anyone terribly competent. (Although, they probably wouldn't have let Cutter backstage, as they would have recognized him.)

 

[WayneLigon]

(1) Borden's wife. There is no possible way that she could fail to realize that sometimes "her" Borden was really the twin. Yet the movie presented things such that she didn't know or realize this. Stupid.

I think she does know, on some level, since she mentions many times that on some days he loves her and some days he does not. The truth behind the matter is too outrageous for her ever to have figured it out.

 

[Seonaid]

I took it as "not wanting to live like that" meaning that he knew what he had become and he wasn't to be trusted.

Ha, that's funny. I thought he was afraid the machine would mess up somehow (or mess him up somehow) and he wouldn't want to live as a freak. I thought he was being compassionate for his possible future self by giving him an out (suicide) instead of living messed up, and that the shooting of his duplicate was kind of an "oh crap" cover up. I kind of thought that, at that point in time, had he been a little more prepared, he would have wanted a duplicate. However, upon thinking more, either idea (JC's or JR's) makes a tad bit more sense than mine . . .

By having Borden reveal his ignorance of the trick (by sneaking backstage as he did), he knew that he had a secret Borden did not.

That's very valid, and something I hadn't considered carefully, but I think that he had framed Borden. He planned it very carefully, up to and including the blind stagehands that are currently in debate. There are a lot of dialogue clues that point to it--Borden is mentioned specifically when Angier and Cutter are planning.

That being said, I do think that he was taking Borden's daughter not out of spite and vengeance, but because it wasn't as if he could just reveal himself to be alive (and all the questions that would lead to- including the outing of his secret trick), but because circumstances unfortunately would have led to her being an orphan (he didn't know about the brother) and his sense of compassion wanted her taken care of.

What sense of compassion? When is it displayed in the film at all? Perhaps, had he been given the chance to raise her, he'd feel a sense of responsibility and love toward her, but during the film, he definitely was more interested in revenge.

He did have some sighted people standing guard- Borden has to get past one of them in order to get backstage. He takes of his fake beard to "prove" he's part of the show- something you wouldn't do for a blind man.

But the evidence from the entire rest of the movie is that Borden is a highly intelligent person. Perhaps (and, yes, this is mere speculation) Angier was afraid that if he made it seem too easy, Borden wouldn't fall for it. Neither is stupid.

It's just that Angier evidently didn't hire anyone terribly competent.

If you're referring to the man who let Borden go, it's not like he had a chance. I mean, he probably had some role that required him to be by the curtains there, and not enough time to evaluate the truthfulness of Borden's "I'm with the show" statement.

 

[Spatula]

(1) Borden's wife. There is no possible way that she could fail to realize that sometimes "her" Borden was really the twin. Yet the movie presented things such that she didn't know or realize this. Stupid.

It's not like she knew he had a twin. In any case, before she kills herself she talks of going to the mistress and telling her (the mistress) Borden's secret. Whether she actually figured it out or only thought that she had we don't know.

(2) Borden. He essentially sells his daughter to some random nobleman he's never met? While he has a convenient twin on the outside who could check up on the nobleman? Yeah, right. Stupid.

Here are your options - sell your tricks to a wealthy amateur magician and he'll take your daughter as his ward, or your daughter ends up on the street because she has no living relatives.

(3) Cutter. He remarks, "Blind stage hands. I approve." What he doesn't say, but definitely should have, is, "Blind stage hands. Three or four of them. Who all look identical. Er... what the [bleep] is going on here?!" Stupid.

They're not identical.

(4) Angier. So let me get this straight: his means for keeping his awful secret a secret is to tell Cutter not to go backstage, and then employ a bunch of blind watchmen? You have to be kidding me.

They're not watchmen, either. He employs blind men to handle the tanks after the show because he doesn't want anyone to know what's in the tanks.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just saw it tonight, and I was impressed by how tragic a film it was.

Cheers

 

[Starman]

(1) Borden's wife. There is no possible way that she could fail to realize that sometimes "her" Borden was really the twin. Yet the movie presented things such that she didn't know or realize this. Stupid.

Oh, she knew. Scarlett Johannson's character said that the wife wanted to meet with her to tell her a secret of Borden's. It's never said exactly what this was, but he only had one secret - his twin.

The other thing to consider is that they made it a point a few times to talk about how the audience often knows the truth about a magic trick, but they don't want to admit it, because that would ruin it. That was a metaphor for what many of the characters, including Borden's wife, were going through. She knew the truth for a long time, but didn't want to believe it.

The same thing works for the audience of the movie. I knew that Borden was using a double, but I didn't really want to believe it. I kept waiting for him to reveal the "real" magic he was using.

Edited to say that I really enjoyed the movie. No good guys. No bad guys. Just some very human people caught up in their own mistakes.

 

[John Crichton]

The same thing works for the audience of the movie. I knew that Borden was using a double, but I didn't really want to believe it. I kept waiting for him to reveal the "real" magic he was using.

Well said, I forgot about how much I wanted to believe that there was more going on than the mundane with Borden. I think that was one of the best parts about Tesla's machine: it made you think that more was going on than what the story already showed us, which turned out to be more than enough.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As I thought more about the film, the more I liked it. There were so many elements of the film whose significance 'turned' upon Bordens final revelation, investing significance in stuff which had just seemed like 'flavour' originally. It was like good prophecy (and most magic tricks) - obvious once you know what was going on, but quality misdirection at the time.

One question I'm left wondering - was it the natural father of the little girl who survives, or the twin?

 

[Cthulhudrew]

One question I'm left wondering - was it the natural father of the little girl who survives, or the twin?

Good question. I believe it was the natural father, as the twin that was imprisoned was the hotheaded one who had to know how the Angiers' trick was performed, and I believe that one was the one who got involved with Angiers' assistant (Fred, as opposed to Al- the more reserved one).

Though if both men were sleeping with the wife, though (to preserve the illusion), it's really anyone's guess.