D&D 5E The problem with 5e

[Garthanos]

The main issue with injuries is that they usually lead to death spirals. The 4 common types of D&D adventure pacing:

1. Set Pieces
2. Ping-Ponging
3. Long Grind
4. Scheduled Attrition

are seriously harmed by death spirals.

Party level death spirals are also pains ... a hero goes down and that mucks with offensive ability so much that... boom

 

[Retreater]

I don't know why martial characters would be so much better suited. They have the same number of hit dice and while they have more hit points they tend to get hit more often.

Better AC, better hp, likely better chances to hit, better ability to do damage when compared to cantrips. Besides, I don't want to play a character that can only do one moderately cool thing a week.
Most GMs who have used this in my games do so almost completely because they don't like the speed of HP recovery. Simply change that, and leave the powers of casters alone.

 

[Oofta]

Better AC, better hp, likely better chances to hit, better ability to do damage when compared to cantrips. Besides, I don't want to play a character that can only do one moderately cool thing a week.
Most GMs who have used this in my games do so almost completely because they don't like the speed of HP recovery. Simply change that, and leave the powers of casters alone.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it for attrition and balance of recharge vs non recharge as well. Of course I also house rule that any spell that has duration of more than half an hour is multiplied by five. It seems to work reasonably well and keeps nova rounds to a minimum.

I could just have the feces hit the rotational air movement device over a 24 hour period if I didn't use the alternate rule, I don't see why it would be much different because I would still throw the same number of encounters. I just think spreading out over multiple days makes for better pacing.

My players don't mind once they got used to the concept. YMMV of course.

 

[Retreater]

I could just have the feces hit the rotational air movement device over a 24 hour period if I didn't use the alternate rule, I don't see why it would be much different because I would still throw the same number of encounters. I just think spreading out over multiple days makes for better pacing.

For my pacing I don't like having characters spend multiple days with nothing exciting happening. And if you're just hand-waving "three days pass with nothing occurring, now on the third day, roll initiative," then what's the point of changing anything?

 

[Oofta]

That's narration by the gm of the encounters themselves & such a completely different topic that I have to wonder if your playing devils advocate or just not following the discussion about how the long rest recover all hp & cure wounds burn all unused spell slots before recovering them with one spell prepped trivializes the threat of HP attrition to the point of causing negative side effects. In other news though, It's great that you've decided to stop confusing the issue with a totally different topic.

I have no idea what you're talking about. D&D is not a reality simulator, it makes compromises all over the place to make the game enjoyable for as many people as practical. You can't please everyone, and I'm not sure I've ever seen you say much of anything positive, but obviously it does work for a lot of people and game designers. If it didn't work for the latter, we wouldn't have seen HP (and okay until 0 with easy recovery) adopted by the majority of FPS games.

When it comes to HP, like several other aspects of the game you have choices

• Just ignore it. It's a game.
• Variation of the above: it's action movie logic. Yes, John McClane is beat up at the end of Die Hard but he should have at least been in a hospital. It's a common trope that wounds that should debilitate people are a minor inconvenience that they get around. Break an arm? Hit people with your cast until that becomes inconvenient and then just remove the cast. Bullet wound? Removing it heals you. Bleeding out? Cauterize it.
• It's magic. People have inherent magical healing and don't even realize it as anything unusual.
• Change the rest rule so rests take longer. People still recover faster than they should, but it's a little more believable.
• Change the narrative. The arrow doesn't stick into your knee, it grazes it. HP represents strains, contusions, luck, and (perhaps most important) plot armor.

I do a combination of the above. You can always house rule if you want (or use lingering injuries, etc.), I just haven't seen any that would add to the enjoyment of my games.

Of course you can just complain about it endlessly every time the topic comes up, but I don't see the point. It's been a feature of D&D for a while now, it's popular, and it's not going to change any time soon.

 

[Mannahnin]

I agree with everything else, but a round is still only six seconds long, and an action isn't even everything you can do over the course of those six seconds.

Of course, I also rule that a healing potion is like a can of soda rather than a shot, because it's supposed to feel significant.

Several days later...

 

[DND_Reborn]

For my pacing I don't like having characters spend multiple days with nothing exciting happening. And if you're just hand-waving "three days pass with nothing occurring, now on the third day, roll initiative," then what's the point of changing anything?

For my part, excitement and adventures don't happen every day. Often the pacing of the story demands time to develop as things unfold.

You might hand-wave away a month of overland travel in the same manner as hand-waving a month of time for healing and rest. If you see no difference, does your party "teleport" to their destination instead of traveling there? The result is the same: you arrive at your destination, but the idea of it taking a month to get there is more true to the story (unless you are high enough level to teleport or have a setting with teleportation circles shrug).

 

[DEFCON 1]

I always find it funny when someone makes the point "the books HAVE to tell us X".

No. No they don't. They don't have to justify anything. It's a game. A game that is representative of genre and entertainment we have all experienced in the past. And game designers will always absolutely shortchange long-winded explanations when we players can use our own past knowledge of other games and other entertainment and genre to come up with justifiable reasons for ourselves beyond what they provide for us.

Why do we have Hit Points? Because THE GAME needs to come up with a point system to determine when one side has won. That's all. That's entirely the reason why there are Hit Points. We need to know who wins the game. Now that being said... the game and its designers will also layer a bit of story and narrative on top of that point scoring to give it a bit of drama because the game includes story and narrative as part of its reason for existing. But NEVER think that the fluff is the important part for why Hit Points exists. It never has been. It's ALWAYS been about keeping score.

Which means that once the designers have layered a narrative on top of Hit Points that they are okay with... their job is done. This is the game that they have made. And you as a player either play it as-is... you make your own changes so that the narrative and scorekeeping are more to your liking... or you just choose not to play the game altogether if you don't like either or both parts of it.

But it's not the game nor the designer's responsibility to do any more than that.

 

[nevin]

Role playing doesn't matter what system you use. Every single one of them will require modifications or tweaks to fit you and your party.

quit gripeing at the Devs and just figure out the owners manual tweak it so it's your car and drive.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Several days later...

LOL funny video.

Seriously, though, drinking a potion during combat should be an ordeal:

1. Get the potion out of a pouch, backpack, untie it from your belt, pull it from a pocket, etc. I doubt PCs are just carrying them in their hands. If the potion is in your backpack or pouch, you technically have to access that item first, which also takes more time than pulling it from a pocket (depending on where the pocket is, of course).

2. Untie or un-stopper the potion. Remember, these containers hold magical liquid, they should be well secured/closed to prevent slippage or evaporation. You don't want your potion to spill when you do a tumble or something while dodging an attack.

3. Drink the potion, which itself takes time.

4. If you have weapon and shield (or holding things in both hands, such as a weapon and lantern, etc.), you will likely also have to drop or sheath your weapon (or other item) before you can get the potion out.

5. Oh, and doing all of this while possibly attempting to defend yourself by dodging, parrying, using a shield, or whatever.

Sometimes people compare the time to drinking a shot or jugging a soda/beer. Well, the problem with that is a shot glass is open-mouthed so there is plenty of room for air to replace the liquid. As the video showed, in a "close-mouthed" container, that isn't the case and the air has to go in to replace the liquid--so it takes a bit longer.

When you consider all these factors, a DM is generous simply by allowing the "get the potion out" free object interaction and then use an object action to drink the potion. Depending on where the potion is stored, it could require at least another full round just to get access to the potion and then another round to open and drink it, especially if you have something already held in both hands (common IME for pretty much most PCs except maybe wizards and sorcerer casters).