The problem with Binders

Henry

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Only two games in, and I'm beginning to think Binders are in need of a makeover. :)

I'm currently playing a Binder (Tome of Magic) in a Planescape game, and am finding myself somewhat useless, even in a support role. I've enjoyed the idea of a binder thus far -- the flavor, the capabilities, and the versatility of being something a little bit different each day as needed, the ability to fill a different role. However, the time it takes for binding, and the fact that it's not easily cancellable for 24 hours, means that you have to plan much as a sorcerer does, but you don't have nearly the flexability on your choices of powers.

In both games, I've been largely ineffective in combat, even when prepped for a combat role in one instance. In ALL instances, I've had plenty of abilities to GET AWAY and run (which I've joked about!) :) but not a lot of offensive punch. Now, part of my problem was crappy dice rolls (my majority of die rolls were between 2 and 8 the whole night, even with die changes and rolling in a box!) but the other part was a lack of abilities which hurt the enemy more than my allies (many of the vestige abilities, like Focalor's and Geryon's and Balam's, affect everyone in range, not just the bad guys). I've contributed in other ways to the group, but even when supposedly geared for combat (with Andras the Grey Knight, for instance) I actually felt like a bard would have been better than me in the fight. :) In two occasions, there were vestiges that COULD have helped, but I didn't have them bound currently (in one case, rapid diplomacy was needed, and Naberius could have helped), and in another we were unexpectedly ambushed by Shadows (I could have bound Tenebrous, but had Dantalion instead).

One thing I've determined is that the Expel Vestige and Rapid Pact making feats are next on my list to get; I neglected those, but for a desire of flexibility they are becoming indispensible! It's a great class if you can plan for the opposition you'll face that day (and in my case, having Andras and Savnok bound might have helped somewhat, instead of Andras and Buer).

I'm comfortable with the class being a "support" class, like bards, but the problem I have is: Is it too dependent on picking the right vestige that day? It's like a wizard, but instead of a half-dozen or a dozen picks for spells that day, he only gets ONE pick, "and it had better count!"?
 

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Henry, I've come to similar, albeit not identical, conclusions.

I think the binder is just fine as a support class, and I didn't find the abilities too limiting. But, and this is a vital caveat, I brought him in as a replacement character, in a campaign that started well above 1st level, so by the time I was playing him, he already had:

A) Expel Vestige and Rapid Pact Making
B) A vestige phylactery
C) Two vestiges at a time

So at that point, he was excellent as a support character. It's possible that he wouldn't have been at lower levels, though.

That said, my personal play style doesn't lean to support characters, so I wound up changing characters again. ;)
 

Our group also had a 4th level binder as a replacement character. Totally cool in flavor (and a fun personality to boot). But his abilities were far too limited. Lacking a lot of confidence in the odder support abilities of the low-level vestiges, he just bound Amon a lot, which made him a mediocre melee combatant before he was hacked apart by orcs. The player is much happier with his new evoker.
 

I find binders are really good for keeping my notes organized and the ability to punch 3 holes in any papers and include them. . .

WHAT? :p
 

We have a binder in our homebrew urban campaign. So far, he's the only character who hasn't been knocked unconscious, though that's partly because he's been a ranged combatant. I guess Savnok is an archer vestige, I don't have the book myself and that's the only name I recognize from those listed above.
 

el-remmen said:
I find binders are really good for keeping my notes organized and the ability to punch 3 holes in any papers and include them. . .

qft. in fact, they make mention of them in Booklet I Men & Magic (1974)
 

Wycen said:
We have a binder in our homebrew urban campaign. So far, he's the only character who hasn't been knocked unconscious, though that's partly because he's been a ranged combatant. I guess Savnok is an archer vestige, I don't have the book myself and that's the only name I recognize from those listed above.

Savnok just gives you really good armor and a limited teleport ability. Leraje is the archer-vestige. I've thought about her, as well as Andromalius, but we've so far not needed much ranged support (we have a centaur with us who's a darned good shot) and roguish-skills haven't come up yet. However, one thing I haven't lacked is ESCAPE POWER! In one scene, I was mounted on a summoned warhorse, and used him to gallop through a gate to keep from being obliterated by cranium rats, leaving my group to come after me. In another, Dantalion would have forestalled all atacks for one round, while I teleported away. :) I can run away like no one's business. :)

Mouseferatu, you reminded me of something very important -- I definitely need to pick up a vestige phylactery, because that would give me some added flexiblity, and it's something I completely forgot.

Part of this is my sour grapes on my dice-luck, too, I'm thinking; if I'd actually downed a single combatant at some point, I'd have felt a little better. :)

Diaglo, thanks for working an OD&D reference in somewhere -- my day wasn't complete without it. ;)
 

el-remmen said:
I find binders are really good for keeping my notes organized and the ability to punch 3 holes in any papers and include them. . .

WHAT? :p

That's what I thought this thread was about when I read the subject heading. I was going to write about how mine isn't as useful as I think it should be! :) Maybe I'll start a separate thread about that issue.

Olaf the Stout
 

Have you considered designing your own vestiges? Granted, you'll still lack for versatility but at least you'll have a bit of control over your mix of abilities.
 

I think part of the answer is giving each vestige a few more abilities to grant. Some vestige's write-ups even have more powers granted in their descriptions, but not appearing in the actual powers granted section.

I'd also look at the recharge time of 5 rounds for certain ablities. Its just too long.
 

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