The problem with Binders

[Arc]

I've had great success with a Bard / Binder / Anima Mage multiclass build. Naberius makes him a diplomacy monster, and adding either Dahlver-Nar or Malphas make him semi-effective in combat (well, more effective than a bard, which isn't saying much). I find the binder doesn't really shine on its own, but makes for a great dip class to get the perks from a low level prestige. The multiclass options with KotSS and Anima Mage are pretty decent as well. As a whole, the abilities of the higher level vestiges don't really seem powerful enough with their limited availability. Maybe if rebinding mechanics were available that would allow changes of vestiges during combat, the class could be effective, but as is, it's best to pick a vestige or two that complement your main build, and take enough levels in binder to keep them active all day.

 

[Baron Opal]

Are there rules for making your own vestiges or do you do it by feel? I haven't noticed any in the book.

 

[amethal]

Are there rules for making your own vestiges or do you do it by feel? I haven't noticed any in the book.

There aren't any rules in the book, but Design and Development did two articles (ok, one article in two parts) over on the WotC website giving guidelines and hints.

There are also two new vestiges in Dragon Magazine (can't remember which issue) and one in Dragon Magic (8th level, alas) which seem to me to be a bit more powerful than the ones in Tome of Magic.

I'm currently playing a 6th level binder, more as an experiment than anything else. I have been using all the vestiges, albeit in the order I think they are most likely to be useful, just so I can get a feel for it.

Its been a great role-playing experience. His fellow party members think Benjamin has some serious mental problems and multiple split personalties.

Power wise, I could have done a lot better (although that wasn't the point), but he fits in fine in our party - the other characters are seriously non-optimised and our DM is running a fairly forgiving campaign.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I find binders are really good for keeping my notes organized and the ability to punch 3 holes in any papers and include them. . .

WHAT?

Heh. My first impession also. Don't use Binders, the class.

 

[PhoenixDarkDirk]

There are also two new vestiges in Dragon Magazine (can't remember which issue) and one in Dragon Magic (8th level, alas) which seem to me to be a bit more powerful than the ones in Tome of Magic.

It's #341.

 

[kenmarable]

Some alternative ability/feat ideas

What does a vestige phylactery do again? I forget (haven't used one yet and don't have my book). Don't know if this overlaps, but as a feat or alternative to Pact Augmentation, some ideas I'd have for a poor man's Rapid Pact Making are:

* Once per day per 5 EBL, take a full round action to bind a vestige you have bound at some point in the past. Are bound for 1 minute, automatically a bad pact, and one other vestige is inactive during that minute (no abilities, no sign, no influence).

* Similiar to above, but rather than locking out current vestige, the binder is fatigued or even exhausted for a certain amount of time afterwards.

* "Partial binding" - when bind for the day, if only select 1 ability for a vestige to have access to for the day, can bind additional vestiges throughout the day (up to 1/day per 5 EBL? 1+Cha mod/day? 1/hour?). Only gain a single ability from that vestige as well. (Again, automatically a bad pact??) Sort of the equivalent of leaving some spell slots open.

Just some random thoughts. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to play my binder enough to get a good feel yet (dang moving homes!).

 

[lukelightning]

I like binders in theory but I opted to play an anima mage instead of a straight binder (every time I see someone write "straight whatever-class" I think "oh, so he's not gay? Anyhoo enough digression...).

My character is a Binder 1/Wizard 3/Anima Mage 6 (using the improved binding feat to help qualify). So I can bind like a 7th level binder at the cost of only one level of casting. So far I've only bound Malphas to turn invisible with.

The problem that most people agree with is that binders get stuck for a whole day with their choice, and so their "flexibility" is largely an illusion. Perhaps they should get the expel vestige feat for free?

 

[KB9JMQ]

That's what I thought this thread was about when I read the subject heading. I was going to write about how mine isn't as useful as I think it should be! Maybe I'll start a separate thread about that issue. Olaf the Stout

I came in here to see how to better use 3-RING binders

 

[lukelightning]

I came in here to see how to better use 3-RING binders

You need a special feat in order to wear 3 magic rings.

 

[Ashanderai]

Though I have been running him as an NPC, the binder I have played with the party I am running through Eberron right now has been with them since 4th level and has been weak at some points, but an effective support character with most problems just showing up when his rolls are on the weak side. Lately, since getting 8th level and the ability to bind two vestiges his abilities have really started to shine.

Right from the start I knew he needed expel vestige and rapid pact making. I got those as soon as possible; they are must haves for any binder. I don't know why anyone would try to play one without those feats. He can be an effective fighter when he binds Savnok and puts his bonus ability points into BAB. Any other vestige bound simultaneously is icing on the cake.