The problem with D&D

[green slime]

Now we're to the point where we have to say that a F20 properly prepared with the a collection of potions could walk though out W1s wihtout noticing. Even then, the Protection from Arrows, Protection from Energy (acid and fire), and Stonskin add a certain number of hit points to their total. He coudl walk to the walls but with the constant drinking of potions, which doesn't really count as not noticing they're there. Seems the mob option would bypass much of this protection.

Yes indeed. But isn't that what happens at the pub anyway? The fighter drowns drink after drink, not noticing what goes on around him at all? I mean, it isn't like he has Spot, Search, and Listen checks out the wazzoo.

 

[painandgreed]

Yes indeed. But isn't that what happens at the pub anyway? The fighter drowns drink after drink, not noticing what goes on around him at all? I mean, it isn't like he has Spot, Search, and Listen checks out the wazzoo.

Really makes you wonder why all the guards one runs into in a dungeon or castle are always Fighters instead of Rogues.

 

[green slime]

Really makes you wonder why all the guards one runs into in a dungeon or castle are always Fighters instead of Rogues.

Its so the clerics have an even chance to sneak past in their adamantine Full Plate with their religious devices clanking and creaking.

 

[painandgreed]

One thing that strikes me when reading your post is that in a world where 20th level fighters exist, people would develop tactics to make it easier for low level soldiers to deal with high level threats.

Like develop special hit squads, or formations, or combinations of weapons and spells designed to specifically deal with high level characters.

I agree. There should be some basic tactics for cities to defend themselves against high level charactrers or monsters with low level troops. What they really need is an alchemical weapon with substantial splash damage. A super alchemical fire with 3d6 on direct hit and 1d6 splash, or just a 1d6 damage AoE. That would make short work on any unprepared target. Even a few wizards (or rogues with UMD) could use soem wands of magic missle or fireball to great effect. Add in tanglefoot bags and any lone target can be stopped and then pummled into defeat.

All in all, I'd say that high level characters are like modern day armor. They are very powerful but dead if they don't have infantry supporting them in mass combats.

 

[green slime]

I don't see that as much of a problem, though, as anyone carving huge swathes of damage through the assembled army, is going to attract the attention of the enemy heroes.

This would, according to normal thinking, tend to a situation whereby the heroes are held in reserve to a) Relieve pressure or increase it at a vital point of the battle. b) Have a force which can counter the arrival of enemy heroes at a vital point in the battle, c) without tipping your hand as to the quality and quantity of your own heroes.

 

[S'mon]

What, no response to the Mob rules?

Ok, tanglefoot bags on the fighter until he can no longer move, then massed arrow fire. Chuck 40 tanglefoot bags at him every round, and he is immobile. Dead fighter.

20th level wizzies are a different story altoghter. But fighters? Piffle.

*shrug* I have never owned the DMG2 book so I have no idea about these new mob rules. They're not in the 3e DMG I do have. I do like the idea of chucking 40 tanglefoot bags a round at Achilles though. The image may be lame, but it's quintessential 3e. Makes me glad I now play C&C instead.

 

[Hussar]

Well, how about this one then?

Bow's have 10 range increments. That gives our archers on the wall a range of 1200 feet. Since I need nat 20's to hit anyway, I start blasting at max range. Fighter is moving at 120 feet per round and hits the wall in 10 rounds. Fighter is dead before he even reaches the wall because my 500 archers smoke him at about 500 feet.

 

[green slime]

Well, how about this one then?

Bow's have 10 range increments. That gives our archers on the wall a range of 1200 feet. Since I need nat 20's to hit anyway, I start blasting at max range. Fighter is moving at 120 feet per round and hits the wall in 10 rounds. Fighter is dead before he even reaches the wall because my 500 archers smoke him at about 500 feet.

And people call paladins stupid...

 

[S'mon]

Well, how about this one then?

Bow's have 10 range increments. That gives our archers on the wall a range of 1200 feet. Since I need nat 20's to hit anyway, I start blasting at max range. Fighter is moving at 120 feet per round and hits the wall in 10 rounds. Fighter is dead before he even reaches the wall because my 500 archers smoke him at about 500 feet.

At least that, unlike the Tanglefoot bags, does bear some resemblance to the Iliad!

 

[billd91]

Or, round one, 100 first level wizards cast magic missile, fighter drops dead. (Let's face it, how many fighters have a broach of shielding when they can have a necklace of +6 con or natural armor?)

Note that compared to getting 100 first level warriors with regular gear, this army would have taken on an ENORMOUS cost to get 100 first level wizards into position to off that 20th level fighter.
There are any number of bizarre ways that the books can be cooked in D&D to get particular outcomes. Not all of them are realistic.