The problem with elves (question posed)

[Choranzanus]

The Answer

Well, they decided to leave this world for another one, where there are no orcs or humans and can't go there. Only a few were left behind or decided to stay, mostly because they loved humans and eventually give rise to interesting bloodlines...

These ideas are literally hundreds if not thousands of years old; certainly it wasn't invented by Tolkien. I think that if you decide to strip Elves of their Fey heritage you are really taking their soul; they become just pointy eared humans. While blasting everything with powerful magic might seem like answer, Fey cannot (or don't want) really wear magic so liberally as it might seem.

 

[Umbran]

I don't have an answer.

*nod* Fair enough.

But then, my #1 answer is perhaps my best one - you've written yourself into a corner, so the most stable solution is to write yourself back off a bit and not burden their society with that pacifism.

Anything else we give you would be a precarious construct, rather liable to fall down when poked at too hard. You need a robust solution - and the most robust one is to allow them to do a little violence in the name of self preservation, like any other self-respecting life form.

 

[Slife]

Have you read any of the Dragaera series by Stephen Brust? Best series I've seen that takes into account common DnD tropes (fairly accessible resurrection, elves are dominent species, et cetra)



EDIT: And really, what do your elves have that warforged don't?

 

[Choranzanus]

- Of course elves can fight back. But it seems like they don't fight back very well. Consider the destruction of Qualinesti and Silvanesti (Dragonlance.) Consider Athas (Dark Sun, elves reduced to a remnant of savage tribes.) Consider Oerth (Greyhawk, elves reduced to Celene, Ulek, and the Lendores, and isolated elsewhere.) Consider Toril itself (FR, elves reduced to Evermeet and Evereska.) Consider Aebrinis (Birthright, elves driven from most of the continent.)

Remember, elves do not need to be complete pacifist to become extinct, little pacifism is just enough. The problem of elves is that they are not attacking. They are not trying to invade human and orc cities, burn their crops and crush them into dust. Even if they have amazing cities and castles with plenty magic and weapons, even if they are better fighters than those orcs and others, they are not going to win. They will defend from any invasion with confidence, not realising more will come. Their cities and empires will last thousends of years until one by one they are destroyed. With the coming of younger races (humans and orcs) the fate of elves is sealed. Of course, their confidence blinds them to see all this: wherever they are now that place can NEVER fall to any invaders.

 

[The Green Adam]

The Green Adam's Elves

OK, I have permission from my ex-wife to give the low down on my Elves (necessary in my opinion since she was the catalyst for much of my development of that race in my world). Names have been changed to protect the copyright, lol...

A Brief History of the Elves

As a present to the Seelie King of Faerie, a noble Unseelie Lord assembled a group of explorers to map the newly discovered realm of Earth, the Mundane World. Intrigued by the idea, several of the great nobles of the Seelie assembled an expedition group and prepared to leave, returning with knowledge of the great beyond.

The spell ritual to open the gate from Faerie to the Mundane World was powerful and difficult and required a mighty focus. That focus was the Seelie King's Crown. In a great farewell celebration, the King opened the gate to Earth and the explorers waved goodbye in glorious excitement. The just as the last traveler pasted through the breach, the Jester of the Court, son a of mad Seelie and an Unseelie hero, tapped the King's Crown off his head and it tumbled into the warp of dream and reality that rapidly closed.

Now the beings who would be Elves were trapped on Earth and neither side could reopen the gate without the Crown, now lost somewhere in the cosmos.

Stuck on Earth, the Elves quickly discovered it was not for them. Things aged and died. Magic was weak and hard to control. The people were primitive and the weather unpredictable. Reality was so difficult to comprehend. So for the time they were exiled on Earth, each of the Elf Lords and Ladies decided on a different course of action.

The Lady General of the Guard, sworn to protect the explorers, set up a fortress in the high mountains to defend the area where the gate had been.

The Sage of Secrets, Master of Magics, worked night and day on finding a way to get back.

The Lord of Crafts, Baron of Woods and Herbs and Beasts, decided if the Elves were staying for a time, they would need to learn to live off the land. They made the forests their homes and built things and spoke to the animals.

The Lord of the Dark Places, Seeker of the Cold Night, searched the world for something of value to hide away. Something here had to be worth taking back home.

The White Magican, Lord of Ash, Noblist of the Noble and leader of the expedition decided to travel to a bit and learn all he could about this place, it's magic and it's ways.

The Lady General's son, a true explorer and knight of the open sea, set sail with several ships to explore the southern parts of the world. The Young Lady of Fish and Waves went with him.

Times passed, the Elves never aged, never died, never felt right. The gate was gone and the creatures of the world developed and changed and spread. Their number increased and so did their power and the Elves remained stagnant. Until, one day, they began to fade. Literally fade away. Slowly at first, then within a few months there was less and less of them. Something needed to be done.

 

[The Green Adam]

Continued...

The Lords and Ladies united for a great meeting where it was decided they would follow a legend told to them by the young races. In the great Northeastern Sea was an island with a Dragon of power beyond imagining. On the way there, the Lord of Dark Places was discovered to have been in league with the Jester and the Unseelie Nobile who in fact planned to maroon the Seelie King's allies on another world. Branded a mad man and a traitor, the Lord of Dark Places along with his wife, the Duchess of Spider, were stranded on a tiny island in the middle of the ocean.

Eventually the Elves found the island lost in the great Northwestern Sea and met the great Grey Dragon. To each Elf Lord and Lady he granted a stone and they took these gems back to their homelands. One was placed in a metal housing, one was in the base of a deep crater, another into a tree, another on a stone dias and one in a well. The Elves united with the stones and the stones merged with their settings. The Elves became linked to the World. They would now age and die but now understand of the laws of nature, the ways of the Earth's creature and people and the passage of time.

The Lord of Dark Places and the Duchess of Spider found a way off the island, some say thanks to the help of a dark deity and reunited with their followers. They revealed that they too had obtained a stone and were searching for a place to merge it with the world. The other Elves learned of the Dark Elves survival and plans and drove them from the sunlight and deep into a dark underground realm. It was there that they placed their stone.

The Young Lady of Fish and Waves had loved the Lady General's son but he loved adventure and the sea. She sought to leave and find a place of her own with her followers. Feeling bad for breaking her heart, the Wild Knight of the Sea shattered a section of his stone and gave it to her. She would eventually place in at the bottom of the Ocean, far from the surface that brought her tears.

Not completely connected to the Earth, the Lady General's son sought help from Humans. He fell in love with a Human woman and in mating were his people saved. The Half-Elves were born and many more would come.

 

[Nyaricus]

No matter how hard I try, in just about every game that I run the elves turn into fascists bent on destroying the inferior races.

1 -- Elves are superior to other races in just about every way. (See Above Posts)
2 -- Proficiency in longsword and Longbow. (Easily trained troops with good weapons.)
3 -- Easily fed in the field on leaves (Field rations/logistics just got easier).
4 -- The other races keep taking elven lands (Casus Belli)
5 -- Powerful elven magic, passed down for millenia.
6 -- No sleep required, and can see in the dark. Natural Night fighters.

Therefore:
The Elves find they have no choice but to exterminate the inferior races with extreme prejudice.

I <3 U

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Have you read any of the Dragaera series by Stephen Brust? Best series I've seen that takes into account common DnD tropes (fairly accessible resurrection, elves are dominent species, et cetra)



EDIT: And really, what do your elves have that warforged don't?

I haven't read them. Will have to have a look. Thanks for the reference.

Nothing, of course.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Remember, elves do not need to be complete pacifist to become extinct, little pacifism is just enough. The problem of elves is that they are not attacking. They are not trying to invade human and orc cities, burn their crops and crush them into dust. Even if they have amazing cities and castles with plenty magic and weapons, even if they are better fighters than those orcs and others, they are not going to win. They will defend from any invasion with confidence, not realising more will come. Their cities and empires will last thousends of years until one by one they are destroyed. With the coming of younger races (humans and orcs) the fate of elves is sealed. Of course, their confidence blinds them to see all this: wherever they are now that place can NEVER fall to any invaders.

(nods with respect to Tanis Half-Elven in the picture)

Quite so.
It just seems to be the doom of elves, an unavoidable fate. Even as humans are doomed to quickly grow old and die, elves as a race are doomed to perish.
Perhaps they were created, to show the other races something important, something vital, while they remained in existence?

Upon thinking, though, I think I see a way out, rooted in what Queen Amlaruil did in the novel Evermeet, and based upon the conception of nymphs and baelnorn as presented in FOR5 Elves of Evermeet.
A way based upon their ancient and monumental love of their own people, their homes, and the value of life.
Just musing ...

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Nice background, Green Adam.
I think the dwarves would begrudge your elves, though, since stones and stonework are supposedly their sphere.