The Problem with Star Wars

[Villano]

It's like the Japanese director in Lost in Translation who tells Bill Murray "Same thing, with more... intensity."

Didn't actors in the original series say that Lucas' direction was simply to say, "Faster, more intense"?

That reminds me of another director, whose name escapes me, who used to say, "Just like that, only better."

Anyway, I have to agree that Lucas is ironically the weakest element of the new films. I think it's a combination of not being a "people director", being secretive, and, frankly, not having anyone around him to say that something is a bad idea.

It's kind of like the Austin Powers movies. The first one was good and did well, so Mike Myers was given free reign on the next. All the jokes went on too long and he included his ad libs. No one could tell him that having Fat Bastard singing the Chilli's theme song for 2 minutes isn't funny.

Same thing with Lucas. No one could tell him that Anakin in TPM was a bad actor.

 

[jeffh]

Umm The Empire Strikes Back was directed by Irvin Kershner. It is the film that Lucas had the least directorial input on.

Actually, every factual claim in Ranger Reg's post was wrong; the biggest wasn't even the one you pointed out, it was his saying Spielberg had anything to do with RotJ (he had no involvement in any of the SW movies, including that one).

It was so wrong he pretty much must have been doing it on purpose, as some sort of joke, though personally I don't see what's supposed to be funny about it..

 

[The Serge]

I think my problems with PM, AotC and maybe (hopefully not) RotS all come down to one thing: the interaction of Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan.

It's funny you say this because I wrote something very similar to this before. This gets back to Lucas' inability to understand human motivation in these films. Even in A New Hope, we can see what motivates Luke. He's a young adult (what? 18?) who knows (like most of us at that age) that we're made for something better in spite of what our ignorant parents think. He has the added weight of knowing that his father was someone great who died a long time ago. The audience can connect with this. Hell, the audience can connect with all of the mythological motifs in the first film (I don't know if Lucas did this intentionally or not, but they are present... painfully so).

In the new films, however, Lucas botches the human element completely. He also clutters his great story foundation through self-inflicted sabatoge. In The Phantom Menance alone, we see what could have been... Hell, we see what was there but ruined due to Lucas' inability to delegate. Lucas should have hired writers and directors who know how to capture those elements and integrate them into the larger story. The crux of the story is a young boy, a child of prophecy who, due to the ignorance and willfullness of one man, is dragged from the only home he knows and is slowly corrupted by a galaxy for which he's underprepared. The second protagonist is a queen who parallels the boy in that she, while wise beyond her years, is not prepared for the viciousness of the truly evil people and realities around her; she's forced to grow up quickly and make sacrifices. This parallel between the two should have been used to explain why this young boy is drawn to the queen and why she -- witlessly -- finds herself interested in the welfare of this boy (if handled properly, this would have been a sibling relationship, not some sort of weird sexual thing).

Simultaneously, we would have had the revelation of a complacent Jedi Order that has grown comfortable in its status, unaware of and perhaps uninterested in the cancer growing right before them. We would have seen how politics and money have led to an entire galaxy unwilling to make tough choices while injustice is rampant. While the two principals (and arguably three if Obi Wan was handled better) are forced to mature (and in two different directions if done right), we see a society regressing and declining, but unaware of it, leaving it ripe for manipulation by someone using the same elements the Jedi have abandoned in their complacency to get what he wants. The movie, although truly about Anakin, Padme, and maybe Obi Wan, is named The Phantom Menace; we needed to see more of this menace, come closer to understanding what is exactly at stake. How does the military and economic conquest play into this menace's hands? We never know if this was a ploy that would lead to Palpatine's ascension (which makes Darth Sideous' desire to kill Padme very odd) or if there was another plot that was jettisoned after the failure in Naboo.

Of course, Lucas never figures out how to make these things work because he doesn't know how to capture the human elements, doesn't know how to extend the metaphor into the greater parts of the narrative, and doesn't know how to motivate his actors. He does know how to market toys and tie-ins, so we get plenty wasted minutes of fx that do nothing to promote the story.

It's all about the story. Lucas has it right there, but fails to execute. I truly hope that he gets it right this time. Sure, I'll end up liking Revenge of the Sith just as I like RotJ, TPM and AotC, but I want to love it like I love The Empire Strikes Back and most of A New Hope.

 

[Krieg]

The bottom line for me is pretty simple.

1. The original films were fun (from the standpoint of a viewer).
2. The new films (so far) aren't.

All of the convolated apoletics that the films are crappy because they're supposed to be (because their source material was after all crappy), or that they're really for kids, or that we just don't get it...or worst of all blaming the fans for not liking the films because they had the audacity to *gasp* expect something actually worthwhile is mind boggling to me.

The new films are shiny and pretty and absolutely lack any substance. Great visuals are wonderful, but they are meaningless if in the end you don't care about the characters.

So far for me the original trilogies are essentially junk food of the worst sort...empty calories.

 

[Desdichado]

Actually, every factual claim in Ranger Reg's post was wrong; the biggest wasn't even the one you pointed out, it was his saying Spielberg had anything to do with RotJ (he had no involvement in any of the SW movies, including that one).

It was so wrong he pretty much must have been doing it on purpose, as some sort of joke, though personally I don't see what's supposed to be funny about it..

Heh. I was about to post the same thing. Possibly he's mistaking Jedi for Raiders? I dunno. Either way, it's an extremely odd post.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I'm not a Star Wars fan. There I said it. Working for Wizards in the Star Wars fan club for two years taught me that Star Wars fans are a bunch of whining snivelling brats who waste entirely too much brainpower second guessing films they had nothing to do with. Its as though Lucas owes them something by virtue of the fact that he entertained them with some great films almost thirty years ago. The only thing Star Wars fans like better than complaining about the super rare action figures and collectibles they can't seem to get their hands on is complaining about how much the movies disappointed them. Nevertheless, these ones who whined about the new movies are the same people (literally the same people, I followed enough of their accounts) who rush out and buy the newest prequel action figures, keychains, commemorative convention passes, and Queen Amidala hairpieces. The only thing worse than a Star Wars fan complaining about the latest round of movies is a Star Wars fan ticked off because they missed the boat on a hot new collectible that's now sold out. Next to Star Wars fans, roleplayers are a sheer pleasure to deal with (which makes the people who have so far participated in this discussion exempt from my rant since you pretty much must play D&D if you hang out at this site). I think that no matter what Lucas delivered with the prequels, they would not have lived up to the expectations of the majority of Star Wars' most vocal fans.

Like I said, I don't consider myself a "fan." I'm embarrassed by Star Wars fans and I feel dirty for just having had to put up with their whininess day after day, day in and day out. On the other hand, Star Wars is a part of my life that shaped who I am from an early age. I first saw A New Hope when I was five years old. I've caught every other movie in the series, including both the prequels, on their opening day. I was so starved for some Star Wars when Phantom Menace came out that I went to the theater and watched it eight times that summer, despite the fact that there were some definite elements that I wasn't crazy about (Jar Jar Binks).

Although neither of the prequels rank among the best movies I've ever seen, they both have their moments. Every scene with Darth Maul really worked for me. If they would have had more Maul and less Jar Jar, I probably would have been completely happy with ep I. Episode II does away with Jar Jar for the most part and gives C-3P0 a bigger part, which I felt was a temendous improvement. The only real problems I have with Ep II is that is drags a bit in the middle and Anakin comes across as pretty wooden. One thing that occurred to me about Anakin is that I could actually see Vader delivering some of the lines in the same way young Anakin does, so maybe Hayden was directed to deliver his lines in the way he did to provide some consistency to his character. I'm not saying that it worked, but its a thought. Bottom line though, I find Ep II very watchable and entertaining despite its faults. Phantom Menace might be worth viewing once a year when the alternative is gnawing off my own arm out of sheer boredom.

As for midichlorians, yes they do quantify the force, but they still aren't an explanation for it. They're attracted to people who are strong with the force, but they are not the force. I can forgive Lucas on this, but only barely.

I agree that Lucas probably could have used some help with the first two prequels. There were portions of both movies that were just unnecessary and really dragged on. There should be more chemistry between the actors. In fact, the story of how Anakin was found by the jedi could have easily been condensed into a fifteen to thirty minute portion at the beginning of what became EP II rather than being its own movie. I would imagine that an entire movie set during the clone wars might have been more entertaining. The question isn't whether or not Lucas knows how to tell a good story, but whether Lucas is telling the right story.

 

[Krieg]

I'm not a Star Wars fan.

Then it is probably time to find a new avatar.

 

[Storm Raven]

The problem is as much that many of us have grown up and remember Star Wars as something that Lucas doesn't see it as. He writes perfectly for the style. The problem is looking at Star Wars in a way that it was not intended. Star Wars is supposed to be the classic Saturday Matinee type movie. Cheesy, stilted dialogue, quick romances that only happen because the plot says so, and fairly flat characters.

Actually, the problem is that Lucas has forgotten this.

Look at the plots for the first three movies:

1. Bad guys make superweapon and try to destroy good guys, good guys fight back.
2. Bad guys hunt fleeing good guys. Martial arts master trains student.
3. Bad guys try to make superweapon, good guys destroy it.

Compare that the to convoluted and overcomplicated plots of the next two movies. Now the movies are about trade policy disputes, and political infighting in a galactic senate and council meetings, boring poltical discussions between "lovers", and so on. The first movies were swashbuckling space opera because the simplicity of the plot lett them be, the new movies have so much chaff in the way that there is no room to have adventure.

 

[mojo1701]

Compare that the to convoluted and overcomplicated plots of the next two movies. Now the movies are about trade policy disputes, and political infighting in a galactic senate and council meetings, boring poltical discussions between "lovers", and so on. The first movies were swashbuckling space opera because the simplicity of the plot lett them be, the new movies have so much chaff in the way that there is no room to have adventure.

I believe that's what I said, but nice detail.

Even when I saw it, I thought the "love story" between Anakin and Padme was poor.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Even when I saw it, I thought the "love story" between Anakin and Padme was poor.

"Poor" is an understatement. There are few worse ways that storyline could have been carried out. I liked AotC. I thought Obi-wan's subplot was great. I liked the bad guys. They were actual villains as opposed to that one-dimensional hackery they called Darth Maul. The visuals and action sequences were fantastic. The love story, however, was abysmal. He seemed like he was going for some kind of Victorian forbidden love, and missing completely. Combine that with a total lack of chemistry between the leads, and a stalkerish performance out of Hayden (who did just fine in scenes where he didn't need to interact "romantically" with Portman), and you get one of the worst love stories ever put to film.

It should have been the core of the movie. Instead it's like the film equivalent of the nasty, indigestible cob on which sweet, sweet corn clings.

And this is from someone who really likes that movie a lot. Sweet corn makes up for grievous sins, I guess.