the problem with undead (last commands, free will and low-lying prairies)

[wingnut_dc]

Does lack of control mean no new orders or does it mean they now act according to their "free will"? But then if that is the case, what would they do with no orders? Being undead and mindless, I imagine they'd just stand there and ignore everyone who comes near them.

But then if "uncontrolled" undead stop following their last orders, how do you explain all of those adventures where undead are standing and guarding (with specific orders) places where their original "masters" are CENTURIES dead, and therefore no longer "in control"?

To fit with the logic of how the game world works, the zombies MUST keep on following their last orders, regardless of control. Otherwise you have 30 years of adventures that just don't make sense.

Excellent point. I had not thought of this. My only response is, that it is in undead's nature to attack any living person. So when you create an undead and leave him in a location, it is his nature to attack adventures when they pass through.

My question to you is, if adventures come across zombies that have been programmed some menial labor, will they attack? Or do they ignore everything outside they are doing.

My other question is can you teach an undead dog new tricks?

I love the way you think alsih2o. If that is something you want to incorporate into your game, I would go with your first train of thought that they continue to do what they where last told to do.

 

[Altalazar]

Excellent point. I had not thought of this. My only response is, that it is in undead's nature to attack any living person. So when you create an undead and leave him in a location, it is his nature to attack adventures when they pass through.

My question to you is, if adventures come across zombies that have been programmed some menial labor, will they attack? Or do they ignore everything outside they are doing.

This still doesn't hold - because in those same adventures, the undead descriptions include the specific instructions given to them, which would be irrelevant if they still didn't hold (instructions like to stay in a particular area and to NOT attack individuals with certain holy symbols, etc.)

So the only answer is they keep on doing what they were ordered to do. If they were ordered to "stand and wait" then they stand and wait, even if you are chopping them to pieces while they do so. If they are to dig, well, they'll come out somewhere in China...

 

[Arnwyn]

If they were ordered to "stand and wait" then they stand and wait, even if you are chopping them to pieces while they do so....

Well, I don't go that far. I have a caveat that they will always defend themselves if attacked (but, depending on the orders, may not simply attack first).

 

[fnork de sporg]

That's the way I rule it, but I note whether the undead is "natural" (uh, umm... you know what I mean) or if they were created with the animate dead spell. If animated by the spell, they continue following their last order forever, or until they complete it (if it can be completed). Once completed, they "stop" (likely becoming free-willed, and do undead-y things).

If not actually animated by spell, then I rule that once the current controller dies the undead immediately become free-willed.

Works for me, and is consistent with how my world works and all the adventures that I own.

I think that ratuionale makes total sense. So it would really depend on the origin of the undead and their relationship to the BBEG.

 

[der_kluge]

I had a cavern in a game once that was this huge (several mile long) tunnel that opened up in a cavernous chamber (where the PCs fought a Dracolich), but the tunnel itself was carved out by undead dwarf miners who were still happily digging when the PCs got to the end of it.

You could accomplish the same thing with a golem or two. Give them a command to dig, and leave them to their own devices.

 

[Umbran]

Geologically it'd only work if the average altitude of the prairie was lower than the level of the ocean.

The geology isn't the big issue. A druid has pretty good mastery over elements - Soften Earth, Stone Shape, Lower Water, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, Move Earth, Earthquake, and the various Summon Nature's Ally spells should give the druid reasonable ability to control the situation and/or close the tunnel.

Especially when you figure that it takes a while to fill an entire prairie. Say the tunnel is a standard 10' square job. Assuming I've done my math right, if the water moves through the tunnel at about 22 miles per hour (which is quick for water - faster than most of us can run on the flat), then it'll take an entire day to make a modest lake ten feet deep and one mile square. How many square miles is an entire prairie? How long before the druid notices what's up and stops it using the above spells?

 

[Vaxalon]

That being said, undead and/or construct diggers makes a whole lot of sense when it comes to building gigantic underground tunnel complexes.

 

[jgbrowning]

The geology isn't the big issue. A druid has pretty good mastery over elements - Soften Earth, Stone Shape, Lower Water, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, Move Earth, Earthquake, and the various Summon Nature's Ally spells should give the druid reasonable ability to control the situation and/or close the tunnel.

Especially when you figure that it takes a while to fill an entire prairie. Say the tunnel is a standard 10' square job. Assuming I've done my math right, if the water moves through the tunnel at about 22 miles per hour (which is quick for water - faster than most of us can run on the flat), then it'll take an entire day to make a modest lake ten feet deep and one mile square. How many square miles is an entire prairie? How long before the druid notices what's up and stops it using the above spells?

It could come out a lot faster if the zombies were tunneling at a slight angle. If they broke into the ocean close to the bottom or even worse keep tunneling into the oceanic plate to appear in the deep ocean. A lot of pressure with no air resistance issues.

But generally, a high level druid could probably find some way of doing it. Although a wish would probably work better.

joe b.

 

[barsoomcore]

Okay, so they're zombies.

Ancient Red Dragon Zombies, is what I think Potter forgot to point out. And there's forty thousand of them, digging a tunnel SIX MILES WIDE.

Now let's see your poncy high level druid stone shape THAT! Heh.

 

[Mordane76]

Okay, so they're zombies.

Ancient Red Dragon Zombies, is what I think Potter forgot to point out. And there's forty thousand of them, digging a tunnel SIX MILES WIDE.

Now let's see your poncy high level druid stone shape THAT! Heh.

Now the question becomes how did this wizard acquire the zombies of 40,000 ANCIENT RED DRAGONS?!